Back to Leave No Child Behind

No Child Left Behind will go down in history as just another mess created by George Bush.

Do you really,seriously,think Mr Bush creates all the mess and the rest of you have nothing to do with it?That's what I call a COP OUT.

I'm no big fan, but mostly because of the ultra liberal school administrators who have allowed children with no business in public school to be allowed in under this pretense. I believe they are intentionally flaunting the potential failures of the intent of LNCB, simply because they can't stand President Bush.

I've seen it firsthand, and I think they can KMA.

gravy, You've summarized it pretty well. Not all children learn at the same speed or skill level, and testing for grade level will always fail in most school environments. What I find interesting is the fact that certain school districts in Northern California always seem to test high relative to all California schools such as can be found in Palo Alto and Saratoga, but to live in those communities requires it's parents to earn enough to pay the high premium for homes. Generally speaking, the parents are also college grads.

personally I love the whole leave no child behind issue, finally the repubs realize that the Feds should dictate policy once reserved for local school boards. No more of this silly nonsense about local control keeping big brother feds out of the perogitive of the local community. What's next on the conservative agenda, enormous deficit spending?

gravy wrote:

As it is called, it fuels the fire for those who see a program that allows/demands 3rd graders not passing the grade be left (behind) to fend for themselves with outside tutoring with no funding, or 5th graders with disabilities be held (behind), because no fund is to be set aside for helping them along. Not to mention punitive measures for schools having any failing scores in form of truncation of federal funds, and thus leaving all their attending children behind.

Oh please. Get real here. It's name fuels the fire? lol The people complaining about NCLB are primarily from the education extablishment or their cronnies/political buddies who wnat to build their little castles in the sand while they promote their own little social theories and ignore the realities of the world. They cry for regulation of every other business but scream like crazy when someone steps in a looks over their shoulders.

The very report that is the basis of this thread admits that Federal Education funding has increased significantly - much more than it would have if it had continued to progress as it had prior to NCLB.

If a child can't perform at grade level why shouldn't they repeat a grade? Should they just be promoted ot the next grade so they don't get their feelings hurt and then be allowed to fall farther and farther behind? Those social promotions are a large part of what got everyone (including a whole host of Democrats) enganged in fixing education to begin with.

The education establishment had a free ride for better than 40 years and they failed miserably. If they want more public $$ for their pet projects they'd better get their stuff together and manage to provide the basics they are getting paid to provide.

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act ...

... Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted ...

... The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

... These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions ...

... We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.

Only a weak grasp of history would lead one to assume anything so simplistic as that there might have been a single, exclusionary cause for the American Civil War. An even weaker grasp of history is necessary to argue states rights was not among the leading causes of The American Civil War. Certainly there was the abolition dispute, and certainly it too was central to the origins of the conflict. However, the very issue of the state's rights to endorse or reject abolition as oposed to federal mandate thereof directly predicated South Carolina's seccession from The Union.


This writer is floating somewhere that has nothing to do with reality.

This writer is floating somewhere that has nothing to do with reality.

squinney wrote:

Yes, my personal view is clouded... by the best interest of my children.

I would hope so!

Quote:

The point being that the teachers are now teaching for the test, which was not happening before it was tied to financial support of the schools. It may go to the integrety of the teachers, but guess what. If their students don't pass this test, they are out of a job. If a certain number of students don't pass, the whole school is put on probation, putting all teachers and administrators at risk.

Integrity is something a person has or doens't have regardless of their employemnt status. The argument that "but it's their job on the line" doesn't hold much water.

And prior to NCLB we had what? Prior to the 1990s teachers that taught whatever they felt like teaching and there was little, if any, accountability. They'd pass their students on to the next grade and then point fingers at each other when it was suddenly discovered that Johnny couldn't read even though he was scheduled to get his diploma within months. Since 1990 35 states had already implemented standrdized tests before NCLB was even dicussed.

Quote:

Now, here's where spec. ed. comes in. First, spec. ed. students do not get a high school diploma without passing the coursework required for one. They can walk across the stage at graduation and get a certificate of completion, but it is not treated the same as a diploma.

I have a sister now lives in a nursing home (not far from you). She was diagnosed as psychotic and mentally retarded at the age of 4. She did manage to graduate in 1986 from the same high school as all of my other sisters did though. There is absolutely no distinction between her diploma and theirs. They are identical except for the names printed on them.

She is incapable of reading beyond the 1st grade level. She can not cook or operate any type of vehicle. She wears shoes with velcro closures because she can't tie her own shoes. Yet she went to school for 12 years in special ed classes and graduated with every other kid from town that was the same age.

Special Ed. students may not get diplomas in your town but they do in others.

Quote:

The argument that a student, even a spec ed student, shouldn't move on to the next grade just because they can't pass an 8th grade math or writing test, is therefore flawed in the assumption that they should be accomplishing the same things as the regular students.

It's only flawed if the promotions actually mean something different. If a regular student and a special ed. student are both working toward identical diplomas then it isn't flawed at all.

If society wants to carve out a niche for those with disabilities that can't be educated in a traditional setting I'm all for it. Let's split things up and have a non-traditional setting and program of training for them. When (or if) they complete it they'd get a non-traditional diploma to go with it.

Quote:

The school with the self contained classroom is held to the same requirements for percentage of students passing the standardized tests as the one with the less handicapped students, or even the school that has no spec ed population at all.

They may but that depends on how the state chose to implement NCLB. As I stated early in this therad, a lot of the blame that people are dumping on NCLB has a whole lot more to do with bad planning at the state and local level than it does with the law itself.

Quote:

I don't mind holding public education accountable. Of course I want my children to have the best education. I don't like having the funding for their school, teacher bonuses, or iPod prizes tied to a single standardized testing of the entire school population.

Again, iPods and teacher bonuses aren't in NCLB anywhere. Those are gimmicks someone came up with in your area. They are, IMO, dumb but they also aren't part of NCLB.

Quote:

Other valuable teaching gets set aside in order to assure passage of this one test, and the students, teachers and entire school can still lose.

So do we segregate out the smarter kids in the 1st or 2nd grade an provide them with the absolute best education and just ignore the portion of the population that has problems? If schools can provide "above and beyond" for some that's fine - I have absolutely no problem with that. Before they go chasing after that though they had better make sure that they are providing at least the minimum standard of education required to everyone.

In today's editorial pages of the San Jose Mercury News, four education experts "point to glimmers of success in NCLB." These three experts, John Chubb, chief academic officer at Edison Schools; Robert Linn, professor of education at the University of Colorado; and Kati Haycock, director at Ross Weiner Education Trust. All are claiming that "accountability works." It's evident to me that none have talked to the teachers on the front lines. It's like evaluating from an ivory tower; and being ignorant of why scores seem to improve. It's distressing.

Mills 75:-


During the last war those who refused to serve in the concentration camps were posted to the nightmare of the Russian front and there were a large number of men who accepted that fate rather than carry out the orders of their bosses which were self-evidently legal at the time.It is a great pity that the German character is judged on the actions of those who chose the easier option.

All I can add is that thank goodness I was taught by priests who have to go to a great deal of trouble to get themselves fired.