Back to Leave No Child Behind

This doesn't address the issue of under and over performance at all, individual variation, anything. Just tries to force a bunch of square pegs into round holes. Perhaps it is the national standardization tests that need to go....

Cycloptichorn

One of the things that make countries like Japan and Sweden and other high-performing countries score high on standardized tests is a national curriculum.

Plain I don't have any backup data to post as my information comes from a school board member who coincidentally attended the same function I attended this past weekend. I trust his numbers to be reasonably accurate. What are the numbers from your school system? (I know New Mexico doesn't do as well as most.)

Now look. The only faction frontin' the straw man argument all students would be held to the same standard are those who defend the status quo. What I don't understand is what part of "objective, effective" as would pertain to tests some folks seem to have trouble understandin'. In order to be both objective and effective, the testin' protocol would perforce accommodate legitimate variances in the learnin' capabilities of students. Of course some students will underperform, others will outperform; thats a factorable given. Where there would be no room for variance would be in the standards applied to educators, schools,and their administrations. What must not underperform is The System. Do the job, or lose the job - its that simple.

Timber, perhaps you could give us a sample of such a test?

Are we going to include administrators in this? I know that in my local school district that administrators were (maybe still are) evaluated based on how many disciplinary actions were taken. Which merely resulted in pressure on the teachers not to refer students to the office.

Then teachers were stuck doing both their job and the principle's job. And risked their job if they spoke up.

The bottom line is that that particular measurement is a stupid way to judge performance, but it is an easy way of judging performance.

The corporate world has the same problem, btw. Corporate IT departments track trouble tickets instead of uptime. If you perform preventive maintenance then the number of trouble tickets goes down, and they don't need your services any more thank you very much.....

So just make sure you're measuring the right thing.



I will add that from what I can tell about "no child left behind" is that the easiest way to achieve it is to make sure that no child gets ahead.

It isn't necessary to be able to fix a thing in order to be able to see it plainly needs fixin'. I don't begin to assume competence for fixin' the system, but I sure as hell can see its broken and needs corrective attention ... corrective attention its not been gettin'from the folks who've been responsible for the system over the past generation or so.


Precisely. Artificial standards, such as those you mention, are a large part of what needs fixin'.


I would say then that one of us has a flawed understandin' of what NCLB is and is about.

I'll remember you said this next time someone accuses the Dems of complaining and not offering solutions.

Cycloptichorn

If the Dems even so much as showed sign of recognizin' anything other than their grip on power was broken, you might have a point, Cyc.

NCLB is nothing more than teaching to the test. Just like in Texas.

Anyone who thinks a national curriculum is the answer is deluding themselves . . . or else, they really are clueless.

Besides, McGentrix, that is the very opposite of the conservative philosophy you espouse.

Let's begin by asking a question. Do we adopt the Alabama curriculum and standard or the Massachusetts curriculum and standard?

NCLB is nothing more than teaching to the test. Just like in Texas.

Oh, yes, Texas, where the administration "transfers" failing students or students whose first language isn't English to improve test scores.

Tests. Let's address the matter of tests. In order to teach in the state of Massachusetts, it is necessary to take a general literacy test and then particular tests in the area(s) in which you wish to teach.

My daughter (graduate of Smith, who attended Harvard Summer School while in high school; the Sorbonne while an au pair; the University of Cordoba during her junior year abroad) scored 83 on the two sections of the general test. I scored 93. We took the test on the same day. Does that make me smarter than she is? No.

I took the English teachers' exam two years later and scored 97. I hadn't been in an English course since 1974.

At no time during the exam was I worried that I would fail. However, I was angry. I had to take a day off from my part-time job and pay $100 to be tested on a range of material in order to teach something as basic as, "The Great Gatsby." Can we say out of proportion, boys and girls?

While my scores are strong, there are things in my resume that are a better indication of my intellectual ability and my continuing interest in writing and literature than a pair of test scores.

Now, 60 is the passing grade.

Imagine that you are a parent of a high school age child. Two candidates were interviewed for an English teaching post at your child's school. One is a 24 year old woman who graduated from Second String State University and scored 65 on the general test and 65 on the English test. I'm the other candidate. You know my scores. I have two master's degrees; I worked in journalism and public relations for almost seven years; I was a member of a book group for 14 years; I've written a novel -- which I've never submitted to a publisher. The school hires the younger candidate. Maybe she is hired because she is younger and might stay in the system for many years or might be more easily manipulated. Perhaps she is hired because she is less expensive because she has only one degree and the engagement ring she wears is a sign that she may not take the system's health insurance plan.

Generally, parents know nothing of the hiring process or of the lists of candidates. Your next-door neighbor is secretary to the superintendent, so you know.

How do you feel? Are you happy that the school system had its eye on the bottom line or are you angry that a more qualified candidate was side-stepped?

Well, the higher-qualified candidate might have expectations such as teaching a honors course or somesuch.

The rejected applicant might have been perceived as havin' an intractable attitude problem.

It is true that the most likable candidate or the one who seems to fit in better is the one who will get hired. I was turned down for a teaching position once. I had a good friend in the system who did some detective work for me to find out why. She was told that I was dressed too nicely and wouldn't fit in with the more casual and laid back faculty. I knew I should have worn the faded jeans with the frayed cuffs.

It is also a fact that many schools run on politics, nepotism, and favoritism these days. It sometimes isn't how qualified you are but who you know that gets you the job. Plain is right when he says its the kids who suffer when they settle for less than the best they can get.

Most office politics can't hold a candle to what goes on in schools....

nclb is flawed
NCLB is so bad that I think everyone knows it, but admin loves having a number to use in evaluating teachers and schools. Has anyone had any luck in proving that tests are designed to assess students learning not teachers teaching abilities.

Drew Dad -- I once had a interview at the Nashua, NH high school. Now, we all know that NH does not lead the nation in terms of the quality of its schools. As a first year teacher, I would have been given all F and D level students. If a high school is worth its salt, it will distribute classes of different levels to teachers experienced and new. Besides, what is wrong with having expectations of teaching honors' classes?
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Ah, Timberlandko attempted to "dis" me. Well, T, you are your own standard in judging whether you are right or not. When it is pointed out to you that your writing is poor. . . and, frankly, so is your reading level and your reasoning, but, we'll leave that for now . . . you think there is an argument ad hominem flung at you. That shows how immense your ego is. I suspect your wife has never gotten a word in edge-wise.
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As to expecting a teacher to wear blue jeans, well, I wouldn't want to teach at a school like that. Much too restrictive. Besides, teachers are expected to provide a role model on how to dress professionally.

Nothing wrong with expectations, but honors classes are coveted by teachers, are they not? Fewer discipline problems, higher-level material, more inquisitive students, basically a better experience all around. The more experienced teachers grab onto these with both hands and won't let go. The newer teachers are just happy to have a job. They're less likely to rock the boat, will toe the administration's line.

Prinicpals (like most folk) are interested in making their jobs easier, not necessarily in furthering the public good.





FYI, Timber's neither a poor writer, nor does his comprehension suffer. I suspect that writin' like he does takes up consid'rable time, but readin' it is just a bit more fun 'n readin' other folk's stuff. Ya'll lay off 'im, now.

Drewdad writes