4
   

Ken Ham's ark exhibit a fabulous success, evolutionites/evolosers shattered...

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 07:56 am
https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33614912_1839143799505804_9064088914075058176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=11fbe793ab3796cc01eb3bd2d2738734&oe=5B78CB4C
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 02:05 pm
@edgarblythe,
coluber2001 and farmerman

Obviously Noah's Ark was not boat, and Noah was no normal human being (as we know them today anyway) and, there must be more to the story because, the fossil record really exists and the two stories need to be properly interpreted to tell the same story.

This we do know. Jesus claimed to be the creator of the real events (science and fossil records) that the story in the bible claims to talk about. He also claimed to give the story to the Jews through Moses.

He then stepped onto Earth and lived with men that studied the old testament and explained to them how reality relates to scripture. He did not tell them to change the old testament (even though He could have) because, it did not coincide with the reality He claimed to create.

So, since He is the only person with the characteristics to be the creator that, claims to be the creator and, nobody can prove He was insane or a liar, we might as well figure out how to tie these two ancient stories together (fossil record and ancient historical traditions) using all the evidence at our disposal.

And then, determine how the Kangaroo fits into the story. Wouldn't you agree?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 02:12 pm
I would agree that Lewis Carroll must have penned that nonsense.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 02:35 pm
@brianjakub,
I need a reference to Jesus and his mention of a "fossil record". I assume itll be one of these "one liners" that gunga uses to PROVE that dinosaurs existed with humans. "There were behemoths in those days"

Quote:
And then, determine how the Kangaroo fits into the story. Wouldn't you agree?


Im sorry but That aint how science works. You find out everything one can about the kangaroo and its envionment and then, if the evidence fits the scientific mode, its accepted and further tested. If it doesnt fit., then something may be wrong with the whole damned theory, and it ma have to be changed. So then the evidence and the theory are questioned.

SO FAR, no changes needed. Remember, as Pangea rifted, Australia and Asia were joined together through Antarctica. So if we want to look for fossil kangaroos, we should be looking at Antarctica and SW Asia.
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 04:31 pm
I don't know, but we seem to be beating a dead horse here, an absurd, dead horse. I wish we could have a dialogue on how these mythic images arrive, and what they mean as archetypes.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 05:17 pm
@coluber2001,
now now, dont become irascible. For as we know"Irascibility precedes contempt".
Think of BJ as the personification of his initials and enjoy the humor.

farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 05:56 pm
@farmerman,
The very interesting thing was covered in one of my journals (I admit I hadnt opened a few since before my operation). ANYWAY, the whole story about the evolution of marsupials an wallabies and roos, doesnt have a damn thing to do with Mt Ararat and Noah. It has to do with the fact that (as I said previously) AUSTRALIA was separated from ASIA by ANTARCTICA. Marsupials and monotremes had attained early structural phenotypic status by the Jurassic , and , as the Pangea supercontinent started to separate and present day ocesn basins began to appear , the early marsupials had rached what would become Australia and began to evolve while Antarctica and Australia were still joined.

SO, with this as a "falsifiability statement' (that being, If Australian marsupials eveolved separate from Asia, they should have left fossils on ANTARCTICA.
Well sir, several years ago a bunch paleontologists, surmizing that kangaroo ancestors could possibly have been on Antarctica because this landmass and AUSTRALIA wre continuously joined until the earlyCretaceous when at lleast seven of the 9 mammal classes were in the China lowlands and several key species (Ancestors of monotremes and autralian type marsupials ). The placentals were nver found in this area because they were apparently separated by mountain ranges of the Mongolian Plateau. So, the paleontologists looked for several years in Antarctica and found, you guessed , several species of wallabie and monotreme fossils(Teinolophus(This guy had all the attributed of a platypus except a large bill, instead it had brackets of flat teeth in a tenontosaurian style "beaklet".
So the path of evolution of the monotremes and certain marsupials took off around 90 my ago qhen Australia separated from Antarctica which separated from Pangea about 110 my ago.

Lota expeditions get funded by falsifiability gambles.
Id like to know of any expeditions so falsifiably based that failed to find what they said they were going out looking for.
Even Cope and Marsh had general ideas of the stratigraphic controls of the rock bodies they were hunting in the US wet.

So far, as much as i can tell, no discoveries have been made using ID CID style thinking.
That alone sorta deflates a lot of their BS stories about "designers" and "jesus lecturing his posse about the fossil record" , and "design programs"
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2018 06:21 pm
Kangaroos and other Australian animals survived the flood in the neighborhood of Australia, so what? Israelites weren't the only people who could read and write 4000 years ago, the literatures of other nations mention groups of humans and other animals surviving on high places and anything which could float for the better part of a year. And yet, I would still assume that most of our remaining animals owe their existence to Noah.

The thing about sin being involved is an embellishment added in by priests in later times. I give God credit for being bright enough not to wipe the entire system over sin only to have sin back in business as if nothing had happened forty years later.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 11:26 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
The thing about sin being involved is an embellishment added in by priests in later times. I give God credit for being bright enough not to wipe the entire system over sin only to have sin back in business as if nothing had happened forty years later.


I disagree. Without sin there is no choice. Without choice there is no freedom.

God said he created the universe perfectly for man to live in and have a relationship with God as they created new things with Him and for Him.

Satan(one of the spiritual beings that helped God communicate His ideas to men) decided to disobey God and convinced men to chose Satan over God. Satan has more power to control men in a perfect universe than he does in an imperfect fallen universe.

The Flood and tower of Babel stories in the bible are telling the same story of God changing the universe (probably over more like 40,000,000 years if you use the Sumerian texts for determining chronology) so Satan's persuasive powers would be limited.

God let man live in a perfect universe with no worries. Just one rule. Don't listen to Satan.

Well, when Satan had convinced all men but Noah and his family to follow Satan, God started over and lowered Satan's power so we could still learn through experience.

Then God sent His Son to reveal God His plan and to take on our mistakes and then introduce the corrections into the universe through His death and resurrection. That process is till happening for each individual through the Christian Faiths but most fully and physically in the Roman Catholic expression of the Christ and His teachings.

gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 01:39 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:
Satan(one of the spiritual beings that helped God communicate His ideas to men) decided to disobey God and convinced men to chose Satan over God.


He's been doing a good job of that recently....
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 02:25 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:

Quote:
The thing about sin being involved is an embellishment added in by priests in later times. I give God credit for being bright enough not to wipe the entire system over sin only to have sin back in business as if nothing had happened forty years later.


I disagree. Without sin there is no choice. Without choice there is no freedom.

God said he created the universe perfectly for man to live in and have a relationship with God as they created new things with Him and for Him.

Satan(one of the spiritual beings that helped God communicate His
ideas to men) decided to disobey God and convinced men to chose Satan over God. Satan has more power to control men in a perfect universe than he does in an imperfect fallen universe.

The Flood and tower of Babel stories in the bible are telling the same story of God changing the universe (probably over more like 40,000,000 years if you use the Sumerian texts for determining chronology) so Satan's persuasive powers would be limited.

God let man live in a perfect universe with no worries. Just one rule. Don't listen to Satan.

Well, when Satan had convinced all men but Noah and his family to follow Satan, God started over and lowered Satan's power so we could still learn through experience.

Then God sent His Son to reveal God His plan and to take on our mistakes and then introduce the corrections into the universe through His death and resurrection. That process is till happening for each individual through the Christian Faiths but most fully and physically in the Roman Catholic expression of the Christ and His teachings.



Pure science.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 07:43 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
...pure science...


Maybe. But you could still make up a new religion by taking the single stupidest doctrine from each of the existing religions and even that would make more sense than evolution.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 07:47 pm
Evolution is to academia, what crack, smack, and glass are to the ghetto.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2018 04:35 am
@brianjakub,
You’re confusing mythology for reality.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2018 04:53 am
Oh yeah . . . how shattering. Who the hell is Ken Ham, and why should anyone with more than a few brain cells care?
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2018 05:42 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
@brianjakub,
You’re confusing mythology for reality.

This is spiritual materialism, the literal interpretation of metaphors. This is frequently done in one's own religion, and it's an easy trap to fall into. Mythologist Joseph Campbell says that in order to get around that you can study the myths of other religions, because the archetypes are the same everywhere, but local variations differ, and it's easier to see the metaphor in a different religion. But we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, we want to see that the archetypes are within us, are describing our psyche and our relationship to the universe and the relationship of the mind to the physical.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2018 05:54 am
The fundamentalists are driving the young people away from religion and into atheism. They're really cut off from their roots and they're drifting around without relationship, relationship to their own natures, internal and external natures. And the environment and natural world are rapidly being destroyed. The idea of an afterlife as a substitute for relationship is not religious, it's anathema to religious mind.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2018 10:05 am
@farmerman,
and egdarblythe
Quote:
I need a reference to Jesus and his mention of a "fossil record".
John 1:1
Quote:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.


All things that came into being even "fossil records". Jesus is the designer of the hardware and software we are observing as Evolution through natural selection just like Alan Turing is the designer of the hardware and software of his computer that cracked enigma. And, the fossil record is the record of the results from the evolution through natural selection algorithm that somebody wrote and installed into hardware.

But even if some other intelligence besides, God's Living Word we know as Jesus, was involved in evolution through natural selection (whether it intervened correctly or not) Jesus points out in John 19 where the authority to intervene came from by using Pilate as an example for all of His created intelligent beings.

John 19:7
Quote:
7 The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God.”

8 Therefore when Pilate heard this statement, he was even more afraid; 9 and he entered into the Praetorium again and *said to Jesus, “Where are You from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 So Pilate *said to Him, “You do not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?” 11 Jesus answered, “You would have no authority [c]over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”


Quote:
Im sorry but That aint how science works. You find out everything one can about the kangaroo and its envionment and then, if the evidence fits the scientific mode, its accepted and further tested. If it doesnt fit., then something may be wrong with the whole damned theory, and it ma have to be changed. So then the evidence and the theory are questioned.


Quote:
So, since He is the only person with the characteristics to be the creator that, claims to be the creator and, nobody can prove He was insane or a liar, we might as well figure out how to tie these two ancient stories together (fossil record and ancient historical traditions) using all the evidence at our disposal.

And then, determine how the Kangaroo fits into the stor
y. Wouldn't you agree?


You and I agree on how science works You just used the words "scientific mode" (to develop a theory) instead of "story invented by scientists" and I used the word Kangaroo "story" instead of Kangaroo "theory".

The main difference between us is I want to use all evidence at our disposal and you want to use a bias of your own creation that states "only intelligence that can be considered in information creation is intelligence that can ONLY reside in our universe. The problem is our universe is a system with a lot of information, and there is no such thing as a self creating system.

Or, in other words the designer of a system cannot reside in the system while it is being designed and created. Would that be logical to say it can? Is it logical and good science to avoid the discussion? If it is can you explain why?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2018 10:14 am
@brianjakub,
That and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2018 04:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe quotes from this blog
Quote:
One facet of the Noah's Flood story that fascinates me is how it launched and landed just up the road, after having the entire globe to drift around for many more than forty days. It would be more believable to me if it had come to land in America or Australia.
Quote:
I would agree that Lewis Carroll must have penned that nonsense.
I believe that when you and I come to lie down for the last time, if only we can keep firm hold of the great truths Christ taught us—our own utter worthlessness and His infinite worth; and that He has brought us back to our one Father, and made us His brethren, and so brethren to one another—we shall have all we need to guide us through the shadows. Most assuredly I accept to the full the doctrines you refer to—that Christ died to save us, that we have no other way of salvation open to us but through His death, and that it is by faith in Him, and through no merit of ours, that we are reconciled to God; and most assuredly I can cordially say, "I owe all to Him who loved me, and died on the Cross of Calvary."

— Carroll (1897)[31]
Thank you for the comparison.-brianjakub

Some more edgar
Quote:
That and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee.

Quote:
sci·ence
ˈsīəns/Submit
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Some mighty well thought out comments with a scientific basis, edgarblythe--not.

At least I try to explain the "behavior" of the natural world by systematically studying all available sources.
0 Replies
 
 

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