"Have it all" backlash

I dont know about Germany, but usually in such things Germany isnt much different from Holland, and in Holland this is not true. Waitinglists for pre-schools are a problem, definitely. Depending on where you live and what preschool you want to send your children to, it can be quite extreme. For example, if you want to send your children to that Montessori-style pre-school in the upper-middle class neighbourhood of the big city, you may have to register them for the waitinglists practically as soon as they're born, as well as pay a hefty (though in the case of Montessori schools luckily income-dependent) fee. But that is definitely one extreme of the scale. In the end, I think there is still a pre-school in town for most everyone who seeks one - I dont think anybody has to wait "till the child is 10 years old".

Then again (perhaps unrelated), the whole difference between stay-at-home parents and working parents here might be less profiled because so many women work part-time.

I read through the article, and then, begun reading the posts and I stopped here. hehe.. literally,
Being an at home mom i think I know where the hopelessness comes from that the author talks about.
I am in the same boat as Soz onthis one, I am agreeing with the author 50% of the time, the other 50% i am thinking.. wth?!

When i read this article, the helplessness that she address formed itself in my mind as this,
"I have to do all I can for my child because they are MY child. I cant slack because it will damage my child in the long run. People should understand this with out me saying so. People should realize what I go through with out me saying so. I have no other choice , as a mom it is my JOB ! Not my husbands, not my family, MINE. And how i choose to do that job defines what my child will be later on in life."

Yeah, it sounds like I am paraphrasing her article, but I agree with her statements enough that they make sence to me.
I feel hopeless all the time, And for may reasons in this article!
I feel that I dont get the responce, help, support I should get for this job.
I feel that this has become ... a job.. and not a pleasure.
I agree with the statements about gov funded OPTIONS for parents.
But then again, I agree with CJ on the " How much do you really want the gov to step in here?" stance..

I just finished reading this article so I will post more in a minute when I have gathered my thoughts a bit better. I am still rambling and I think I am going to go re read it .
Great article!!!
Thank you for sharing it Boom.
I have sent it to MR Wolf.. I will post his answer as well. It will be interesting to hear from a Daddy's point of view on this ..

Actually nimh, I have 2 friends that are stay-at-home mothers in small towns in northern Germany (less populated as in southern Germany), and both had to wait for a
place in preschool due to priorities given to working mothers, which I think is perfectly all right, since working mothers should have first priority.

I sent this article to my mother.
granted she is quite busy at her desk , so she sent an abbreviated answer to her thoughts on the article...
She lives in Albq.. so she has seen this woman before on local tv.

I agree with this. I think that's part of what I'm getting at, I'd prefer to build up the people who make it work. Give them as much props as the CEOs or talk show hosts or athletes. See how they do it, see how to help other people be able to do it, too. How do they make it work, what kind of support do they have, how can we get more people that kind of support, what sorts of sacrifices do they make, how do they find balance, etc., etc.

Boomer, I know what you mean about people who have unreasonable expectations. To me, that's all part of the same thing. Parenting well is hard. It's as hard as being a CEO or a talk show host or an athlete. It should get as much respect, and as much recognition of its difficulty.

That said, it shouldn't be drudgery, IMO. The great CEOs and talk show hosts and athletes take joy in what they're doing, the joy is part of what makes them great. I definitely think there should be enough support to allow for that joy.

Absolutely, soz. That said, there is always an element of drudgery in any job. That's why it's called "work." Right?

Yup. I think that's the crux of a lot of this -- some people think it should be free of drudgery, and it ain't. The joy is there, to be sure, but it ain't pure unalloyed continuous joy, by a long shot.

I worry about what shewolf is saying, though, it shouldn't be that bad. Might be time for one of those reassessments that boomer was talking about, chica.

It is time soz.
And I state that because I know I am not the only one. And the author touched on that feeling.

I was thinking about where this ' i am completely responsible' attitude came from and one thing that I thought of was this new ( well maybe not COMPLETELY new ) psychological approach people have to thier emotional health.. the " Blame it on your parents" stance.
yeah, we all know that to a small extent that is true, BUT as an adult it is time to take responsibility for YOUR OWN actions and stop playing the blame game.
I think alot of people ... well.. i will just make a blanket statement here..
I think alot of women still HEAR the.. its your parents fault.. and we take that to heart.
Bring on the drudgery !

Hmm.. i think I may be derailing the topic a bit. I need to go back and finish reading the posts..

That indeed is true. But in order to do so, some mothers
need to put competition aside and embrace other children
as well. For me it has been a real eye opener to see some
women being doting mothers to their own offspring and
down right rude to other kids. Then there are mothers
who will help each other out and take turns babysitting or play
chauffer to various sports games, but it is not easy to
find a healthy balance in all that.

I can't speak to the European system at all. I will have to take nimh and CJanes words for it. I do agree that working moms should have the first stab at it.

Shewolf, obviously you are in a lot of company with the helpless feelings you're experiencing. Earlier on, sozobe talked about making sure to involve EG at the warning of her friend. Go back and read what she said and really think about it.

What you say about parenting Bean being your job and yours alone probably gives rise to a lot of helpless feelings. The older Bean gets, the more people she will come in contact with and the more influence other people will have on her.

My parenting situation is different than most so perhaps I'm a little stoic on this point - if I felt that everything Mo had experienced in early life were it for him you'd just have to lock me away in a very dark room.

I'm glad you enjoyed the article and I'm glad that you shared it with hewolf. It might be a good conversation starter for you to ask for some help.

I gave it to Mr. B too (and to all of you) because I thought it a great launch point for discussion.

And it seems that it has been.

Your mom sounds like a pretty smart woman. Helping one another is a great goal. I think the current mom-competition keeps a lot of these kind of needs - real emotional and physical needs - shoved into the closet. Admitting that you're having a hard time in the midst of perfection parenting is no easy feat. That is what I meant about being truthful about yourself, to yourself.


Oh soz I am so banging my brain trying to remember something I read about women mentoring women and how the whole thing has really stopped dead in its tracks and taken on a "I got mine" attitude. It was a while ago that I read it and I'll have to search around but what you said about seeing others do it and having them let you know how they did it reminds me so much of this.....

And you're right, Eva, there is drudgery involved in everything, even the things you love. I always loved my job, it was the only job I ever wanted but sometimes the drudgery of it was overwhelming. And as much as I love Mo sometimes the drudgery of parenting is overwhelming. When I was trying to cram both things into my life full time all that was left was the drudgery. Seeking balance was like cleaning out the closet - everything was an absolute mess before it got better.

Yes yes yes, Calamity Jane - maybe putting the competition aside is the key to this whole thing.

In the context of "Women helping Women". I notice that A2K members are much more likely to advise well-established A2K members than to answer newby questions.

Well, obviously - advising newbies is a bit of a crap shoot, you dont know how they'll react or if they will at all or what they'll take from it if anything - its a cool benevolent thing to do, but a friend asking advice is easier to turn to of course (not that i'm a woman or actually even responded here much so i dont know if i should even be answering)

I'm guilty of that.

But honestly I'm much more apt to be seeking advice and not nearly confident enough to offer it.

There was a woman not long ago that posted that I really really wish would come back. I'm afraid I saw her post a little late and I could have probably helped her with the information she was seeking. By the time I saw her post and responded I'm afraid I was too late. I posted anyway but she hasn't come back.

I would so like to know what happened.

I need to get better at cruising the categories instead of the "At A Glance" thing......

nimh--

You have a valid point, impeccably worded.

I'm fairly new myself and don't consider in my answer/advise
if a member is well established -
it is the subject that draws my attention.

Random thought:

Several times now boomer has posted something that she was worried about with Mo and I thought oh, sozlet does that, and then I thought hey, why haven't I said anything about that? Part of it is just that I tend to write for posterity, and it's just nicer to remember the good stuff. When I think of "what do I want to remember from today?", it tends to be the cute thing she said instead of the fact that when she's really bored she does this super annoying stumbling thing, where she doesn't watch where she's going and just kind of staggers and inevitably trips over something and hurts herself or makes some kind of a horrible mess. Can't stand stumbly mood.

Ahem.

One other thing I realized is that the biggest, worst, most personal dust-up I've had online ever was on Abuzz (I think the last time I ever went there, in fact), when I let my guard down and revealed some personal parenting stuff with some political types. I plain don't trust the political types (sorry, political types) and don't want to give them any ammo. I was much more willing to talk about bad stuff, fears, controversial parenting decisions, etc., with my irl stay-at-home dad friend than I am online. (Also willing to talk about it via email.)

Not that there are like Things that I am Specifically Not Mentioning, just in general it's a barrier for me.

But I keep trying to make more of an effort in that direction, slice of life rather than slice of cute.

Oh I'm shameless! I know I am. My need for advice outweighs any iota of vanity I might possess. I am the ultimate in unplanned parents.

Sometimes I really think I've gone too far and I worry about revealing too much. I try to talk to my mom about some of this stuff but she gets crazy sad at the thought of me losing Mo and her distress overloads me. For me, its way easier to spill my guts and fears and junk to "strangers".

This is hard to explain and I hope that I don't offend anyone but I recall a conversation with my brother in law about his step daughter. He really thought he'd been a better parent to her than he was to his bio-daughter because he lacked the "genetic investment" and that allowed him to deal with her on a different level. I imagine if I were to question my mom on this topic she might confess the same thing about my brother, her step son. I've often wondered how this affects my relationship with Mo.....

Thats awful, thats an awful thing to have happened; man. Tell us who (s)he was and we go get him/her! (no, joking). I've never even spent the poss. much thought actually - I'm quite open on the personal threads, never believed that the politicos could take that and use it against me. Joked about it, but never seriously considered it. That musta really stung.

I became an instant mother too boomerang, and
I craved advice from my friends and pested the heck
out of my mother and surrounding girlfriends. But I
needed the reassurance then, that I'm doing the right
thing and I was insecure enough to take a little temper
tantrum to new hights.

All the advise I got then helped me tremendously,
and I am grateful that it was given. So now I dispense
this advise freely to others (if they want to hear it or not)