Rice - getting away from "Punish France, ignore Germany..."?

I'm not sure that anyone's changed their mind, but I'm not freaking out about the possibility that they might have.

It's a very interesting reaction to observe.

0 Replies

I'll definitely give you that.

0 Replies

ehBeth wrote:

I had a revelation about this thread on the way home.
Kept trying to figure out why all the fussing sounded so familiar.

Finally realized this is the International Forum version of life as a teen.

Donna likes Dorian. They've been friends for a long time. Dorian doesn't like Darlene. As a matter of principle, Donna doesn't like Darlene either. She doesn't really know her, never had much interest in her. Just knows about her from Dorian's stories. Donna backs up Dorian everytime she's nasty to Darlene, cuz everyone "knows" Darlene's just awful.

But wait. Dorian went to Darlene's for dinner. They were seen laughing together at the mall. Dorian didn't talk to Donna before or after she went to hang with Darlene.

Donna just can't believe that Dorian went to Darlene's or that they had fun together. Or if she did, it was just because Darlene had something Dorian wanted. It just couldn't be anything else. The idea just makes Donna feel sick, and wanna spit. She doesn't care what anyone says.

The gagging noises are making even more sense now.

That's hilarious, Beth!!

And: "Darlene has lice!" - "Dorian is a slut" - "Donna makes chocolate".

Oh - I note the actual language ought to have been: "Darlene has germies!"

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

ehBeth-- <snip> You never fell for anything else they did so quickly.

I definitely fell for WMD. Or at least I fell for the hope that that was what was behind the invasion. I made more than a couple of posts at A2K to that effect. I wanted WMD to be found.

0 Replies

I think the best definition for coquettish in English is "heartless flirt".

I am gathering that the meaning for the word used in German is different.

I think that Rice IS flirtatious sometimes.

My point about Kissinger is that flirtation has always been a weapon in diplomacy - usually, until recently, between the diplomats, and the wives/mistresses/hostesses of the diplomats of the other side - though Reagan and Thatcher (shudder) are a perfect example of extended flirtation between actual leaders.

Jacqueline Kennedy and De Gaulle are a perfect example of more traditional use of flirtation.

I think Bush and Putin were actually quite flirtatious with each other - to mention a different example - people do not generally notice the use of charm and muted flirting between same sex leaders.

I get to see a lot of politicians and such up close - flirting is used by males and females to assist in getting what they want.

I think the comment about Rice IS sexist - simply because her flirtatiousness is commented upon - while male flirtatiousness is not. (Even Madeline Allbright used flirting - but I don't think it got mentioned - except by her.) In English, coquetry has a negative meaning beyond flirtatiousness - so that would make the comment worse in English, at any rate.

But - I haven't had a chance to read what Walter is saying about the meaning of the word used in the language and context it was used in.

I am unsure why confronting and criticising sexist language is exempt from the usual accusations of "PC-ness" from the right here.

This strikes me as an unusual line-up happening!!!!

0 Replies

dlowan--Donna IS a Germie.

0 Replies

Good try.

0 Replies

Bookmark

0 Replies

dlowan-- You don't understand PC. Would you like a tutorial? Free...

0 Replies

nah - I don't like your version. I will keep my own.

0 Replies

I hate for you to be so confused about it.

There is such a thing as legitimate, actual insult.

<Not to be confused with PC>

<See? Easy.>

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

ehBeth--

You don't seriously think the Bush administration has changed their minds about France, Germies et al, do you?

You never fell for anything else they did so quickly. But, hey, if Europe and Canada... are all happy with the Bushies---hey, I won't complain.

Actually, it's great. (Condi must have put something in the water over there...)

....and, do you seriously think the French and Germans have really changed their view of the Bush administration?

When will Americans realise the public posturing about Old Europe is for domestic consumption.

In the real world International Relations continue evolving.

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

I hate for you to be so confused about it.

There is such a thing as legitimate, actual insult.

<Not to be confused with PC>

<See? Easy.>

Nah. These days, generally speaking, PC is what you don't find insulting, but others do - if you are right wing and enjoy using PC as the new PC insult of choice.

Or, sometimes, what somebody else noticed was insulting before you had a chance to, depending on mood.

Legitimate insult is what you find insulting too.

Reminds me of the damn Johari Window...

0 Replies

Is that posturing about Old Europe happening anywhere but America?

0 Replies

Lol - it reminds me of the old soviet propaganda days - "The followers of the old way who will soon be pushed aside by the inexorable forces of history"

0 Replies

I have seen the Rabbit in many a mood but never in a state of confusion.

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

dlowan-- You don't understand PC. Would you like a tutorial? Free...

You might do such for, I suggest, you use the links at this website.

Nevertheless, I'd still like to read that headline in the original quotation and context.

I ince again kindly remind that there are words, spelled (nearly) precisely the same in different languages but with remarkably different meanings.

For instance,
-you Americans laugh about 'Focker' - we here would think of an airplane (company). (And 'Fahrt' isn't written with an 'h' too much!)

0 Replies

Back to that word.

Three German headlines from within the last fortnight:

a) Schmeling kokettierte mit Gedächtnisschwund [Berliner Zeitung and more, originally an dpa-article]

b) Mayer kokettierte mit Bonus [Oberösterreichische Nachrichten]

c) Stoiber kokettiert Karnevalisten [Schäbische Zeitung - Lindauer Zeitung]

Lash, CalamityJane and ehBeth (plus perhaps some more )can translate this.

For the others:
a) Schmeling coquetted with loss of memory [Schmeling was a quite popular former German box champion]

b) Mayer koketted with bonus [Mayer is a very good and popular Austriab skier]

c) Stoiber koketted with members of carneval association [Stoiber is the conservative Bavarian prime minister.]

0 Replies

I read through the last four pages. We've all learned a lot. Principally, a "lookalike" word in another language can be easily mistranslated, and mistranslations can cause misunderstandings and further troubles. Also, that behaviour that would be expected (by American conservatives) of an American female diplomat is not the same as normal European femininity. Thirdly, that some Americans don't like fun being poked at them.

This from Francis' link:

USA TODAY berichtet insgesamt positiv, beschränkt sich dabei allerdings auf die "joviale" und äußerst gut besuchte Pressekonferenz von Rice und Schröder in Berlin. Der Bundeskanzler habe mit seiner scherzhaften Bemerkung auf Englisch zu Rices selbstbewusstem Auftreten "We are in Germany, but that`s woman power" die Lacher auf seiner Seite gehabt. Erwähnt wird auch, dass es ein wenig Chauvinismus beim Empfang der ersten schwarzen Außenministerin in Europa gegeben habe. Als Zeichen hierfür wird gewertet, dass eine Schlagzeile einer deutschen Zeitung Rice als "kokett" bezeichnet habe. Der Artikel ist mit einem großen Foto von der lächelnden Außenministerin und dem lachenden Bundeskanzler versehen, das gutgelaunte Vertrautheit ausdrückt. end quote

I'm thinking now, that the photo I saw was perhaps the very one which gave rise to the claims of coquettish behaviour by Ms Rice. It was a lovely smile she gave Gerhard, anyway.

0 Replies

Walter,

These difficulties occur within a language. Americans refer to the derriere as a fanny, in Australia the word refers to a part of the anatomy which resembles McGentrix's mouse.

0 Replies

Rice - getting away from "Punish France, ignore Germany..."?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know