Rice - getting away from "Punish France, ignore Germany..."?

WhoodaThunk wrote:

Walter, why do you suppose France bent over backwards to keep Britain out of that union for 12 years?

You see, I've been both in France and in the UK around those years - and before that time, and afterwards - quite often.

In the 60's, Britain really was anti-European, as strong as it is today.
And not only France thought so - I suppose, the others were glad that they didn't have to it.

Besides, 12 years is a rather good time period between appliance and actually becoming a member. (Others took longer - and nowadays it lasts even much more years.)

Where have you been all my (A2K) life?

For us, WWII did start in Pearl Harbor. Bush was speaking to the American people, not you, and, in that context, he was entirely correct.

Quote:

Stereotypes stick, don't they, and sometimes because they are reinforced. On quite a few occasions for example while in America, I have been complimented on how well I speak English.

You construct this so as to imply they didn't realize it is your language too. That is implausible. Far more likely the comments reflected your British usage and the differences in accent. Do you find that remarkable?

I suspect the compliments for your mastery of the language were just that, awkward compliments for the turn of the tongue they were hearing. I also suspect those dishing up the compliments would have been hurt had they known you were laughing at how they reinforced your image of the Ugly American.

Top-10 Countries With A Disproportionate Number of Doughy Women With Thick Ankles?

No, it is because they were unaware that English is spoken anywhere outside the USA.
Not just one person. Several people said this.
And not just to me. It's happened to others I know too.
Surprising, isn't it.

WhoodaThunk wrote:

Top-10 Countries With A Disproportionate Number of Doughy Women With Thick Ankles?

Been down the mall lately?

georgeob1 wrote:

For us, WWII did start in Pearl Harbor. Bush was speaking to the American people, not you, and, in that context, he was entirely correct.

He was entirely dumb.

France Calls for Fresh Start in Relations with U.S.

Mon Feb 7, 7:41 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters


By Matthew Bigg

PARIS (Reuters) - France wants a fresh start in relations with the United States and both sides have much to contribute to a renewed transatlantic partnership, Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said in comments published Monday.


He made the remarks before a visit to Paris Tuesday by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) aimed in part at repairing ties damaged by the U.S.-led war in Iraq (news - web sites), which France opposed.


"The moment has come for a fresh start in our relations," Barnier said in an interview with the French daily Liberation which was conducted late last week.


"Alliance doesn't signify allegiance," he said, underlining the need for a mutual partnership. "A renewed transatlantic alliance must be based on two pillars (European and American)."


His remarks were the latest sign since President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election of a desire for rapprochement between the Cold War-era allies.


Bush has invited French President Jacques Chirac to Washington and the two leaders are due to dine together in Brussels on Feb. 21 before a NATO (news - web sites) summit.


Recent statements from both sides have underlined the positive rather than the negative in relations, and Rice has chosen Paris as the venue for a keynote speech during her first tour of Europe and the Middle East as secretary of state.


"The question is not to know what we can bring to the United States, or what they can bring us. The question is what we can do together to solve problems," Barnier said, citing problems including terrorism, hunger and the situation in Afghanistan (news - web sites).


Barnier, who like Rice was visiting the Middle East on Monday for talks on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, defended negotiations by Britain, France and Germany over Iran's nuclear program but called for U.S. support.


"We have no illusions and are moving forward with open eyes with the Iranians. But to succeed we need American support. I have the impression listening to President Bush, who has strongly criticized Tehran, that he would wish to have confidence in Europe (over the talks)," he said.


The EU is trying to persuade Iran to turn a temporary freeze on sensitive nuclear work, such as uranium enrichment, into permanent cessation in return for economic and political incentives.


Washington accuses Iran of seeking to develop a nuclear bomb but Rice has sought to ease fears of a possible U.S. attack. Iran says its nuclear program is to generate electricity.


France was encouraged by the election in Iraq on Jan. 30 and by a "renewed determination" in Bush's efforts over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Barnier said.


But Washington must understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is central and there will be no progress toward democracy in the Middle East unless it is addressed, he said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050207/ts_nm/france_usa_dc

Quote:

"We have no illusions and are moving forward with open eyes with the Iranians. But to succeed we need American support.

Rice Calls for New Chapter in U.S.-Europe Relations
Tue Feb 8, 2005 10:30 AM ET


By Saul Hudson
PARIS (Reuters) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice urged Europe Tuesday to put aside differences over the Iraq war and open a new chapter in relations with the United States to help it spread democracy worldwide.

Rice pointedly made the appeal in France, a fierce critic of the war, during an eight-nation tour to drive home the message that President Bush wants Europe to be Washington's partner and not its rival.

"America stands ready to work with Europe on our common agenda and Europe must stand ready to work with America," Rice said in comments from a keynote foreign policy speech released to reporters before delivery.

"After all, history will surely judge us not by our old disagreements but by our new achievements," said Rice, a former university provost.

Rice is to deliver her speech at the prestigious Sciences Politiques university in Paris which has been at the center of intellectual and political debate over transatlantic relations.

The address will be the main speech of her tour in Paris, "to send the message to Europe that the Bush administration has ended its own internal debate about whether to view a united Europe as a rival or as a partner," a State Department official said.

"It is time to turn away from the disagreements of the past. It is time to open a new chapter in our relationship and a new chapter in our alliance," Rice said.

The desire for better ties is shared by France, whose foreign minister called Monday for a new start to relations.

Removing one obstacle to better ties, a French government source said shortly before Rice's arrival that Washington had agreed to hand over to France its last three citizens held by U.S. forces at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"GREAT ALLIANCE"

Rice, the top U.S. diplomat, is trying to find common ground with Europe on her first trip as secretary of state.

After a chill in relations with European powers such as France over the 2003 invasion of Iraq, she is calling for help in promoting what she calls the West's "shared values."

"This great alliance, which has had a really glorious past, now can have an even greater future in sustaining an effort on behalf of those who are seeking to liberate themselves from tyranny and to build democracy," Rice said in Rome Tuesday before flying to Paris.

Rice had no difficulty in winning backing from Italy, a U.S. ally with 3,000 troops in Iraq -- the fourth largest foreign contingent there after U.S., British and South Korean forces.

Italy's support has stood in stark contrast to German and French opposition to the war, but Italian Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini said it was time to lay aside old divisions.

"I believe that between Europe and the United States there can be no reason for controversy or argument, because freedom is certainly the value which in the last war (World War II) the U.S. restored to Europe," said Fini, standing beside Rice.

European diplomats have welcomed U.S. overtures to mend the partnership, especially after the Jan. 30 election in Iraq.

They have also praised Rice for leading a renewed U.S. peacemaking role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Israeli and Palestinian leaders proclaimed a formal end to more than four years of bloodshed at a summit in Egypt Tuesday.

But many Europeans have also wondered if the U.S. rhetoric on freedom heralds plans to use force to topple leaders Washington sees as undemocratic, such as in Iran.

Rice's choice of France for the "major" speech of her trip showed she wanted to insert herself into the debate in Europe over transatlantic ties to persuade even those most reluctant to put the war behind them, aides said.

4:23pm (UK)
Rice Tries to Patch Up Broken European Friendships

Trying to mend fences with Europe, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said today "it is time to turn away from the disagreements of the past" that alienated long-time allies over the invasion of Iraq.

France was the most vocal opponent of President Bush's handling of the war with Iraq, and the new secretary of state deliberately chose Paris for the major address of her first official tour of Europe.

But Rice did not back down from Bush's pledge to spread freedom across the globe.

In a speech at Paris's Sciences Politiques, she said: "America stands ready to work with Europe on our common agenda and Europe must stand ready to work with America."

"After all, history will surely judge us not by our old disagreements, but by our new achievements," she said.

Sciences Politiques, known in France as Sciences Po, is a school of political science that has been at the centre of recent debate over America's reach and power.

Rice said the founders of both the French and US republics were inspired by the same values - freedom, democracy and human dignity - and by each other. History has shown that revolutions striving for freedom can start in mundane ways but need outside help, she said.

"In my own experience, a black woman named Rosa Parks was just tired one day of being told to sit in the back of the bus," Rice said. "So she refused to move, and she launched a revolution for freedom in the American South."

Similar was the power of Lech Walesa and his workers strike in Poland, Afghans and Iraqis who recently voted after years of repression and ordinary men and women who helped bring down the Berlin Wall in 1989.

"Yet that day of freedom in November 1989 could never have happened without the full support of the free nations of the West," she said.

"Time and again in our shared history, Americans and Europeans have enjoyed our greatest successes for ourselves and for others, when we refused to accept an unacceptable status quo, but instead put our values to work for the cause of freedom.

Rice said, "America has everything to gain" from having a stronger Europe as a partner.

"It is time to turn away from the disagreements of the past," Rice said. "It is time to open a new chapter in our relationship, and a new chapter in our alliance."

Excerpts From Rice's Speech in Paris
Tuesday February 8, 2005


By The Associated Press

Excerpts from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's speech Tuesday in Paris, as transcribed by CQ Transcripts:

Human imperfections do not discredit democratic ideals. They make them more precious. And they make impatient patriots of our own time work harder to achieve them.

Men and women, both great and humble, have shown us the power of human agency in this work.

In my own experience, a black woman named Rosa Parks was just tired one day of being told to sit in the back of the bus. So she refused to move, and she touched off a revolution of freedom across the American South.

In Poland, Lech Walesa had had enough of the lies and the exploitation, so he climbed a wall and he joined a strike for his rights and Poland was transformed.

In Afghanistan, just a few months ago, men and women once oppressed by the Taliban walked miles, forded streams and stood hours in the snow just to cast a ballot for their first vote as a free people.

And just a few days ago in Iraq, millions of Iraqi men and women defied the terrorist threats and delivered a clarion call for freedom. Individual Iraqis risked their lives. One policeman threw his body on a suicide bomber to preserve the right of his fellow citizens to vote. They cast their free votes and they began their nation's new history.

These examples demonstrate a basic truth: the truth that human dignity is embodied in the free choice of individuals.

We witnessed the power of that truth in that remarkable year of 1989, when the Berlin Wall was brought down by ordinary men and women in East Germany.

Yet that day of freedom in November 1989 could never have happened without the full support of the free nations of the West. Time and again in our shared history Americans and Europeans have enjoyed our greatest successes, for ourselves and for others, when we refuse to accept an unacceptable status quo, but instead put our values to work in the service of freedom.

^---

The agenda of U.S.-EU cooperation is wider than ever and still growing, along with the European Union itself.

We agree on the interwoven threats that we face today: terrorism and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and regional conflicts and failed states and organized crime.

We have not always seen eye to eye, however, on how to address the threats. We have had our disagreements.

But it is time to turn away from the disagreements of the past. It is time to open a new chapter in our relationship and a new chapter in our alliance.

America stands ready to work with Europe on our common agenda and Europe must stand ready to work with America. After all, history will surely judge us not by our old disagreements, but by our new achievements.

The key to our future success lies in getting beyond a partnership based on common threats and building an even stronger partnership based on common opportunities, even those beyond the trans-Atlantic community.

^---

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a time of unprecedented opportunity for the trans-Atlantic alliance. If we make the pursuit of global freedom the organizing principle of the 21st century, we will achieve historic global advances for justice and prosperity, for liberty and for peace.

But a global agenda requires a global partnership. So let us multiply our common effort.

That is why the United States above all welcomes the growing unity of Europe. America has everything to gain from having a stronger Europe as a partner in building a safer and better world.

So let each of us bring to the table our ideas and our experience and our resources, and let us discuss and decide together how best to employ them for democratic change.

We know we have to deal with the world as it is. But we do not have to accept the world as it is.

Imagine where we would be today if the brave founders of French liberty or of American liberty had simply been content with the world as it was. They knew that history does not just happen; it is made. History is made by men and women of conviction, of commitment and of courage, who will not let their dreams be denied.

Our trans-Atlantic partnership will not just endure in the struggle. It will flourish, because our ties are unbreakable.

For that, France has to suffer jibes about faded movie stars and Old Europe. Know what? Jibes don't change facts.

France did not approve of, nor join in the invasion of Iraq because it was immoral and illegal. And stupid, too.