Rice - getting away from "Punish France, ignore Germany..."?

Why should I bother. I've already found you a link that states the US is concerned that the EU is making noise about relaxing the embargo. Hell, I think the article I linked said that Fischer and Chirac have personally and publicly said they want to lift it, and other nations argued them down.

I don't think if I found Chirac holding a sign that read..."I want to lift the embargo", you would accept it.

<broil>

Let me go see about this.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=609506

Does "kokett" ring a bell?

Whooda - I don't pay for subscriptions. Could you post that article?

It's irrelevant what Chirac and Schröder say when it comes to the European Council.

Only the European Council can lift the embargo. It can only lift the embargo when all 25 members agree.

Source :wink:

Gentlemen--please stop trying to do propaganda for the Red Europeans!!!

<made myself laugh>

But, really. Why contort into such a German pretzel...? We all see what is going on.
--------------

Bush departs for Europe later on Sunday, a day after the United States and Japan declared Taiwan was a common security issue amid the concerns about China's threat to invade the island if it declares independence.

Washington and Tokyo also urged China "to improve transparency of its military affairs" in a joint statement Saturday amid concerns an EU plan to lift an arms embargo against Beijing could upset the region's military balance.
(This was a joint statement. It happened.~L)

The European Union imposed the arms embargo after China's military crushed the 1989 Tiananmen democracy protests.

By removing it, the US fears Beijing will have greater access to high-tech weapons systems that could be used to thwart any US intervention in the Taiwan issue, said Richard Fisher, deputy head of the Washington-based International Assessment and Strategy Center.

"As both Japan and the US begin to seriously prepare for a real war on the Taiwan Strait, it is simply sickening that European leaders are proposing to take any steps that would help to enable (China's) dictatorship kill (Taiwan's) democracy," Fisher told AFP.

Despite the embargo, EU companies were already involved in China's military modernization and lifting the embargo would only heighten existing cooperation, he said.

While Britain's Surrey Satellite Technologies Ltd. was enabling new Chinese military anti-satellite capabilities, advanced Rolls Royce turbo engines were powering China's homemade JH-7A fighter bomber and Eurocopter was helping China build combat and transport helicopters, Fisher said.

German diesel engines were outfitted on China's fleet of conventional "Song" class stealth submarines, while French engines power China's new naval frigate. Both could be used in an potential naval blockade of Taiwan, he said.

"As such, European companies have a presence in all PLA (People's Liberation Army) military industrial sectors," Fisher said.

"Even if the EU Code of Conduct is modified after discussion with Washington to continue denying the sale of full EU-made weapon systems to China, a very likely increase in the sale of military technologies will serve to accelerate PLA modernization."

Although much of China's efforts to modernize its military have come from Russia, there was still a lot of European technology China would want, said Ellis Joffee, an expert on the People's Liberation Army at Hebrew University in Israel.

Since the 1990s, Beijing has purchased about 20 billion dollars worth of Russian military hardware, including advanced Sukhoi SU-27 and SU-30 fighter jets, modern Russian destroyers and submarines, with about 12 billion dollars of weapons already delivered, he said.

"What is driving China to develop is their desire to have a capability to deter or defeat US intervention in the Taiwan Strait and deter Taiwan from extreme provocation," Joffee told AFP.

"The acquisition of the Russian weaponry and the ongoing training by the military, is constantly raising the price for any US intervention."

If the arms embargo was lifted, it was unlikely China would rush to Europe to begin a buying spree, but by lifting the embargo greater exchanges with EU military industries would likely increase, he said.
____________
I tell you if this happens there will be serious trouble. It has the appearance of the EU aligning with China against the US.

Thanks, Walter.
Interesting in context.

Thank you Walter. Finally a source!

i think in the end it doesn't matter very much whether or not the embargo against china will be relaxed. just have a look at all the united states and european corporations that have set up shop in china and those that are importing major components of their products from china. some time ago i read in 'business week' that the u.s. military would be in serious trouble if there would be a serious slowdown in delivery of electronic components from china. within in the last two weeks there was a report about the u.s. westcoast ports. the report said that there is an urgent need to expand those ports to accomodate all the ships bringing cargo from china. the idea of an enbargo seems kind of silly to me since the u.s. is trying very hard to increase its exports to china. i doubt very much that there are many goods that the chinese are not producing; as i said, just take a look at american companies and their trade pattern( a look at ships originating in chinese ports docking in u.s. westcoast ports and those passing through the panama-canal will give a good idea of what is happening in the trade between china and the rest of the world). china has probably become one of the economic engines of the world. from what i read in bussiness magazines, it seems that the rest of the world is lined up to trade with china. hbg

Taiwan News.

Part--

If they really lift the weapon sales embargo, they would be giving wings to a ferocious tiger," said the NSC official.

The official said that even with the embargo imposed on China, some European countries such as Italy or France itself, used to "smuggle" high-tech weapons and defense technology to Taiwan's political enemy.

"This is why Michele Alliot-Marie's statement is merely dream world," said the official.

According to the official, lifting the embargo would put a lot of pressure on Russia, which sells most of its high-tech weaponry to India at the moment.

"If such European high-tech is opened to China, Russia will be forced to give China its latest top of the line technology," he said.

Commenting on the U.S. government's fierce lobbying of European countries to speak out against the embargo lift, the NSC official asked, "Does it help? The European Union has mentioned that they would sign some sort of code of conduct with China in the future if they really sell weapons, but this is only a useless and meaningless approach to appease the Bush administration."

On the other hand, Professor Lai I-chung of the Taiwan Thinktank who said Michele Alliot-Marie's statement was ridiculous and completely nonsensical pointed out that the U.S. could place more emphasis on lobbying eastern and central European countries to deter the embargo lift.

(...)

_________
This is not a small issue. It will send reverberations all over the globe.

From the Joint Statement of the 7th EU-China Summit:

.....

7. The EU and China confirmed that EU-China relations in all aspects have developed significantly in the last years. In this context they discussed the issue of the EU arms embargo against China. The EU side confirmed its political will to continue to work towards lifting the embargo. The Chinese side welcomed the positive signal, and considered it beneficial to the sound development of the comprehensive strategic partnership between China and the EU. Both sides reiterated their positions and agreed to continue consultations on this issue. China reaffirmed that political discrimination on this issue was not acceptable and should be immediately removed. The EU reaffirmed that work on strengthening the application of the European Union Code of Conduct on arms exports was continuing.

8. The EU side reaffirmed its continued adherence to the one China policy, and expressed its hope for a peaceful resolution of the Taiwan question through constructive dialogue. The Chinese side appreciated the EU's commitment to the one China policy and reiterated its principled position on the Taiwan question.

9. The Leaders believed that the EU-China human rights dialogue promoted mutual understanding and agreed to continue this dialogue, while making efforts to achieve more meaningful and positive results on the ground, as well as the related bilateral cooperation programme. They underlined their respect for international human rights standards provided for in relevant international human rights instruments, including on the rights of minorities, and their commitment to co-operate with UN human rights mechanisms. In this respect, China is committed to the ratification of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) as soon as possible. They also noted the importance of the International Criminal Court in the global fight against genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. The Leaders underlined the importance of concrete steps in the field of human rights and reaffirmed their commitment to further enhance co-operation and exchanges in this field on the basis of equality and mutual respect.

Translation for non-Europeans and non-Chinese:

The EU has just signed on to help Communist China continue to murder those who want freedom from them.

You better stop, hey, what's that sound,....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4077739.stm

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao has been leading the Chinese delegation at the talks, which also focussed on trade and investment issues.

He said the key to developing EU-China ties lay with mutual trust and understanding.

The current ban "does not reflect the partnership between China and the EU," he said after the meeting.

The BBC's Diplomatic Correspondent, Jonathan Marcus, says advocates of lifting the ban say they do not expect a flood of weapons sales to result.

The move is about normalising the EU's valuable relationship with China.

But such arguments do not carry much weight in Washington, our correspondent adds.

The US fears that Chinese access to defence technology such as radar and communications equipment - rather than European weaponry - could alter the balance of power in Asia, and across the Taiwan Strait.

German Socialdemocrat Chancellor Schroeder is in favour of lifting the embargo I believe, but Green Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer is not, way I understood it.

exactly, nimh.

Actually, German Socialdemocrat Chancellor Schröder has personally and publicly said he wants to lift it, and the Green coalition partner has argued him down:

[translation from German]:

Greens criticise: Chancellor "buys" China's sympathy

The Greens emphasized their criticism of Federal Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's commitment to lifting the European Union's weapons embargo against China. The Green delegate Winfried Hermann accused the chancellor of trying to "buy" China's goodwill concerning a German seat in the UN Security Council as well as orders worth billion for German companies.

"Suchlike business leaves the coalition in a light of untrustworthyness", he told the Tagesspiegel. For Green European delegate and former party chairman Angelika Beer, Schröder is responsible for a loss of German credibility in foreign policy: "The attempt to lift the embargo at the current time leads to an international loss of credibility of German human right and foreign policy", she said. Green parliamentary vice chairman Hans Christian Ströbele requested following the Parliament's resolution prohibiting a lift of the embargo.

source

Your thoughts, nimh?

How to Euro-Speak: A phrasebook for the presidential tourist.Get a job.Clean up your mess. As reported here and elsewhere, French leadership of EU and U.N. missions in Congo and Ivory Coast, among other African countries, have led to massive moral and tactical failures as "peacekeepers" have turned into rapists, thugs, robbers, and killers. In France, according to Le Monde, some survivors of the Rwanda genocide, which would have been impossible without French complicity, are finally being given a chance to ask for a hearing in a French court of law. This will almost certainly be blocked by the government, which has been covering up this gruesome scandal by burying it in slow-mo "investigations" for a decade now.

3. Stop taking bribes.Since you can't defend yourselves, get out of our way. NATO became a work-around for the U.S. in Iraq, and the alliance is now paralyzed because of the EU's own ambitions, as the International Herald Tribune reports. "There is paralysis between the EU and NATO," the paper quotes an EU official as saying. "We do not discuss anything serious." If that's the case, then why are we spending serious billions to keep the thing alive?

5. Knock off the eco-hypocrisy. The Europeans like to parade their agreement to abide by the provisions of the Kyoto pact like members of an Earth Shoe drill team. According to a piece in the IHT, "[Jürgen] Strube, the chairman of BASF's supervisory board, responds with a hint of impatience when asked how European industry plans to comply with the Kyoto Protocol, which requires Germany and 34 other countries to reduce their emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. As the treaty takes effect Wednesday, worries about its fairness are mixed with mild resentment [because] in their view… American and Chinese companies will not bear these extra costs." The item is a pick-up of a New York Times story by Mark Landler, so of course the rather salient fact not reported is that neither France, Germany, nor the rest of the EU will comply with the treaty provisions either. They aren't about to "bear these extra costs" when they can barely afford to drive to the beach in August as it is. In fact, the EU has treated Kyoto like its now-toothless debt-limit treaty and given up on it altogether. "Kyoto im Koma," were the words of a memorable Suddeutsche Zeitung headline a little over a year ago when the EU's Kyoto failure was first widely noticed.

6. Start a "No European Left Behind" program.Jacques, Gerhard, get a better campaign issue.

JW rules!