Rice - getting away from "Punish France, ignore Germany..."?

The only problem with the oh-it-must-be-because-of-China theory is that the growing Chinese power has been a gradual phenomenon of the past ten years - its a Big Thing but nothing particularly immediate about it this year - so in that sense it doesnt quite cover the (at least rhetorical) turnabout (for now) by the Bush admin vs. "Old Europe".

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There is something immediate. It seems to be debated here (A2K)--but the US is under the impression that the EU is relaxing embargoes---and this is a Big No-no. It is quite particularly immediate.

As I said, Condi is talking about it publicly on the news.

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JustWonders wrote:

What exactly is perceived by you to be 'lying'? The fact that Europe is preparing to relax its embargo on arms sales to China or that the U.S. first wants to see progress there on democracy and human rights?

Oh, JW, I would never ever seriously question the US' intentions concerning progress on democracy and human rights in China.

As I was trying to explain there are no preparations by the EU (Europe seems to be a bit of a vague term here) to even relax the embargo.

Considering the statement of the chairman of the European Council that no such steps would be taken in 'foreseeable time' just made me wonder how people get the idea that 'Europe is preparing to relax its embargo'.

And how people can write an article claiming this would be a 'fact', when quite the opposite appears to be true.

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Lash wrote:

There is something immediate. It seems to be debated here (A2K)--but the US is under the impression that the EU is relaxing embargoes---and this is a Big No-no. It is quite particularly immediate.

As I said, Condi is talking about it publicly on the news.

Which others do you mean?

And when you say: "but the US is under the impression that the EU is relaxing embargoes", how is this noticed?

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Damn. Instant Gratification

Of course, I would have rather been wrong.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/133426/1/.html

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Or if you could ask my grandmother, she'd tell you it's been a growing thing over the past 120 years.

The economists have been talking about the China/India/EU/U.S. power balance thing here in Canada very intensely over the past 12 - 18 months. I work in the Canadian 'towers', and the microscopic focus on the east has been extraordinary lately.

The U.S./EU return to efforts at political courtesy may be related, or not, to that focus by the economists. I suspect it's not all it's about, but I'd be amazed if it wasn't a factor.

The U.S. deficit situation is a much bigger deal, globally, than a lot of people seem to understand. If the slide doesn't stop, there could/will be trouble for a lot of us.

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Okay, that article says, military goods were supplied although there is an embargo.

And that the USA feared that this embargo might be lifted.

But I couldn't find any mentioning that the EU plans to lift it or even had lifted it.

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Hmmmmmm.....

Trying to figure this out....

It's probably all boiling down to this little footnote:

Quote:

"As both Japan and the US begin to seriously prepare for a real war on the Taiwan Strait, it is simply sickening that European leaders are proposing to take any steps that would help to enable (China's) dictatorship kill (Taiwan's) democracy,"

(statement by Richard Fisher, deputy head of the Washington-based International Assessment and Strategy Center)

Let me do some more research on this, I have a vague idea where he might have gotton his ideas... Very Happy

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Walter--first you ask--Where did you get the impression?--now, you say, But the EU isn't doing it yet...

We're likely not going to wait for the EU to do it.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/12/09/news/union.html

What's going on...

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Hmm, so when Singapore paper publishes that the USA fears something, you get the impression that this is happening or will happen.

Pardon that I didn't get that at once, I was thinking more about facts.

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Nononono Lash, wait...

You get the impression from the words of Richard Fisher, the deputy head of this organisation.

Read on their website:

Quote:

IASC is a new Washington-based 501(c)(3) non-profit "think-tank" focused on medium and long-term security issues and their impact on the security of the United States and her key allies. We believe in freedom and democracy. We also believe that these values are best defended by strategies based on a vigorous examination of fact-based scenarios and by challenging all assumptions.

While I profoundly admire those values, I doubt the relevance of Fisher's assessment of the situation.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Lash wrote:
There is something immediate. It seems to be debated here (A2K)--but the US is under the impression that the EU is relaxing embargoes---and this is a Big No-no. It is quite particularly immediate.

As I said, Condi is talking about it publicly on the news.

Which others do you mean?

And when you say: "but the US is under the impression that the EU is relaxing embargoes", how is this noticed?

Walter--

Look at what you asked. I answered your question. I said the US is under the impression that the EU is going to relax the China embargo. The link proves my statement. Any further weight you choose to place on the issue was not forwarded by me.

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Walter, essentially it's not even Singapore paper. It's a Washington-based think tank called International Assessment and Strategy Center.

Honi soit qui mal y pense :wink:

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old europe wrote:

Nononono Lash, wait...

You get the impression from the words of Richard Fisher, the deputy head of this organisation.

Read on their website:

Quote:
IASC is a new Washington-based 501(c)(3) non-profit "think-tank" focused on medium and long-term security issues and their impact on the security of the United States and her key allies. We believe in freedom and democracy. We also believe that these values are best defended by strategies based on a vigorous examination of fact-based scenarios and by challenging all assumptions.

While I profoundly admire those values, I doubt the relevance of Fisher's assessment of the situation.

old europe--

I can't figure out exactly what you and Walter are taking issue with.

MY point was the US is under the impression the EU is going to lift the embargo. I have proven quite succinctly that that is true.

If you want to argue that the US is incorrect in that concern--have at it--but that is a separate argument.

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And Lash, I might be mistaken, but I would say there is a difference between the 'US being under the impression that the EU is going to relax the China embargo' and named think tank stating such would be the case.

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Your point was that YOU got the impression.

And I think, s.o. needs some facts to get an impression, at least more than a newspaper article, quoting the US got an impression.

But you are correct - that's only my opinion.

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Quote:

MY point was the US is under the impression the EU is going to lift the embargo. I have proven quite succinctly that that is true.

This is what I doubt and take issue with. Actually, I just doubt it. Still, maybe we could find some more sources.....

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Lash - I give you high marks for trying to meet Walter on his terms, but I don't think he'll ever believe anything unless he finds it himself ... or ... if an errant Chinese missile lands on his cupcake bearing the inscription "Made in Europe in 2005."

Probably not even then ...

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Lash, maybe you could find us some sources for this:

Quote:

As I said, Condi is talking about it publicly on the news.

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WhoodaThunk wrote:

Lash - I give you high marks for trying to meet Walter on his terms, but I don't think he'll ever believe anything unless he finds it himself ... or ... if an errant Chinese missile lands on his cupcake bearing the inscription "Made in Europe in 2005."

Probably not even then ...

When did we meet the last time that you know me so well?

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Rice - getting away from "Punish France, ignore Germany..."?

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