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Rice - getting away from "Punish France, ignore Germany..."?

 
 
dlowan
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 03:36 pm
Lol! Did you guys see "Yes, Minister"?
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 03:37 pm
hamburger and mrs. hamburger are "Yes, Minister" addicts.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 03:42 pm
Those French bastards!!!!

Lol - did you see, in the Fox TV thread, that neo-Nazi wife of the Washington Times editor, Coombs, raving on in that weird piece about Lord of the Rings (which she seems to consider the apogee of English literature!!!) about the superiority of English and English Lit and so on to everything and everybody - I think she doesn't know about, or forgot, the whole Norman invasion!!!
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 03:47 pm
The whole notion of history is soooooooo exhausting.
<sigh>
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gozmo
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:00 pm
ehBeth wrote:
The whole notion of history is soooooooo exhausting.
<sigh>


Not the US way............. starts in 1776
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dlowan
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:05 pm
Well - fair's fair - OURS starts in 1788!!!!!


(If any of the damn kids even know what history is any more!)
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dlowan
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:06 pm
We have been sooooo bad - digressing and such...sorry all!
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gozmo
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:07 pm
I reckon the Right Honourable Gentleman's description of Mahathir was apt, particularly as "misunderstood".
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:08 pm
Well, it is international news.
And I'm canajun and you're ozzian.
I think we can have a nice international digression right here.

Squatters' rights.
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gozmo
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:09 pm
dlowan wrote:
Well - fair's fair - OURS starts in 1788!!!!!


(If any of the damn kids even know what history is any more!)


Yep , and we went to Iraq too !!!
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 11:53 pm
Thanks for your valuable responses, WhoodaThunk, not only related to the last questions (different meaning of words in different languages/source of the quoted paper) but to my original theme of this thread as well!
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WhoodaThunk
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 12:18 am
McTag wrote:
I read through the last four pages. We've all learned a lot. Principally, a "lookalike" word in another language can be easily mistranslated, and mistranslations can cause misunderstandings and further troubles. Also, that behaviour that would be expected (by American conservatives) of an American female diplomat is not the same as normal European femininity. Thirdly, that some Americans don't like fun being poked at them.
Quote:


Fourthly, I learned that many refer to you with masculine pronouns. For some reason I always thought you were a she. Sorry. Not that it matters. You've always seemed comfortable with the imperial "we."
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 12:23 am
WhoodaThunk wrote:
Fourthly, I learned that many refer to you with masculine pronouns. For some reason I always thought you were a she. Sorry. Not that it matters. You've always seemed comfortable with the imperial "we."


Not only his photo in the avatar seems to be un-female, since I know him personally for a couple of years now, I'm most certain: he really is a male.

WhoodaThunk wrote:
Lash said he wouldn't rub your nose in it. Lash is too nice.


And here I'm quite certain Lash is a 'she'. But if I'm wrong, I apologize as well.
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WhoodaThunk
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 12:27 am
Lash wrote:
Damn. I always get the sex parts wrong.


Then ... I agree with Lash in yet another area. Laughing
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Foxfyre
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 12:53 am
Hmmm, it never occurred to me to question the sex of some here. How about we all post nude avatars.....

Never mind.
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WhoodaThunk
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 09:52 am
Damn, Helen, I just realized who you were. As always, it's my pleasure to be in your company ... but you would do well to walk several steps apace just now ... :wink:
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McTag
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 09:54 am
John Paul Jones was a Scot (originally, I think) although it is a Welsh name.
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JustWonders
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 07:50 pm
An excellent commentary and follow-up to Dr. Rice's recent visit.



Back From Battle

By DAVID BROOKS

This was going to be a column exclusively about a trans-Atlantic security conference that took place in Munich last weekend. But on the way back, the U.S. delegation stopped for refueling at Shannon Airport in Ireland.

A bunch of us were milling about in the airport bar, holding little Irish coffees, when hundreds of marines started flooding into the terminal. This was their first chance at a beer after eight months of mayhem in the Sunni Triangle. They streamed in looking thick-necked and strong, but they also had wide-eyed, tentative expressions on their faces, like people trying to reacclimate to the manners of normal life.

This unit had lost 22 men, including several in the last weeks. I talked to one kid who had a craggy scar running across the side of his skull. He was proud of how Election Day went and said Iraqis were working harder to take care of their own streets.

I told a bunch of them some senators were on the other side of the bar if they wanted to shake hands. One of them was blasé, but the rest were pleased to go over - especially when they saw John McCain and Joe Lieberman. These were not guys grown cynical about their political leaders.

I tried to think of the Munich conference from their perspective. If those marines had had the stomach to sit through all those panel discussions, would they have thought that the political class was playing games at luxury hotels, or that the politicians were doing something useful to make the most of those 22 Marine deaths?

The first thing I'd tell these marines is that when these politicians went abroad to represent the U.S., they didn't take their squabbles with them. There were Democrats and Republicans in this delegation, but you couldn't tell who was who by listening to their speeches.

Instead, what you heard were pretty specific, productive suggestions on winning the war against Islamist extremism. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham lobbied for ways to use NATO troops to protect a larger U.N. presence in Iraq. Democratic Representative Jane Harman was pushing the Europeans to classify Hezbollah as a terrorist group. Hillary Clinton suggested ways to strengthen the U.N., while also blasting its absurdities. Clinton affirmed that the U.S. preferred to work within the U.N., but she toughened her speech with ad-libs, warning, "Sometimes we have to act with few or no allies."

The second thing I'd tell them is that the politicians were willing to talk bluntly to the tyrants. McCain sat on a panel with officials from Russia, Egypt and Iran. He began his talk with suggestions on how to use NATO troops in the Middle East. Then it was time for a little straight talk. He ripped the Egyptians for arresting opposition leaders. (The Egyptian foreign minister held his brow, as if in grief.) He condemned the Iranians for supporting terror. (The Iranian hunched over like someone in a hailstorm.) He criticized Russia for embracing electoral fraud in Ukraine. In the land of the summiteers, this was in-your-face behavior.

Then I'd tell the marines about the European speeches. Let me say straight away that I covered Europe for four and half years and I'm no Europhobe. I'm glad trans-Atlantic relations are improving.

But I'd tell the marines that I didn't hear too many Europeans giving specific ideas on how to make Iraq a success. Instead, I heard too many speakers evading this current pivot point in history by giving airy-fairy speeches about their grand visions of the future architecture of distant multilateral arrangements.

I heard the German foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, in his soaring, stratospheric mode, declaring that we need the "creation of a grand design, a strategic consensus across the Atlantic." We need a "social Magna Carta" to bind the globe. His chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, proposed a vague commission to rebuild or replace NATO. His president, Horst Köhler, insisted, "Unless we tackle global poverty, long-term security will remain elusive."

Fine, let's tackle global poverty and have new arrangements. But maybe democracies should be contributing to Iraq now. That's called passing the credibility test.

It occurred to me as we left Shannon that it's always been true that American and European politicians have different historical experiences and come from divergent strands of the liberal intellectual tradition. But now there's something else different. American politicians meet combat veterans all the time. They make the calls to bereaved families.

That concentrates the mind.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/15/opinion/15brooks.html?pagewanted=print&positio

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Wow! Did you catch Hil's remarks up there about going it alone? First the 180 on abortion and now this. If she keeps this up, methinks she may need to pay a visit to her local "party registration" office Smile

Also, what about Horst's comment that poverty is responsible for all problems? Do y'all buy that bit of leftist nonsense?
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WhoodaThunk
 
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Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 04:01 am
The next thing you know, Hillary will be volunteering in soup kitchens (just like Barbara Bush did routinely ... only BB did it quietly and HC would bring an entourage.)
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WhoodaThunk
 
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Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 04:13 am
<<<Pardon the sidebar ... but to the party who knows who he/she is ... I would like to reply to your PM, but I have no PM privileges in as much as I've only been a member for 3 years and have not met the rigid requirements for such A2K privileges and will probably never do so having P'd-off so many of the local glitterati on this very thread. But ... let it be known I share your sentiments and would gladly volunteer as your sex monkey ... as long as we're discreet. Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed >>>

Back to the schmooze .........................
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