0
   

The Left Wing, On NBC

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Feb, 2005 12:08 pm
One thing to watch with Fox coverage...China. Rupert has BIG money there, and the prospect of incredible future gains. A lot of bad-mouthing of China ain't gonna be part of the Fox survey of right and wrong in the world.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Feb, 2005 12:19 pm
Actually, as little as I've watched "The West Wing" I've seen conservative characters who were treated positively as well. There's has also been some pretty dark lefties on the show. I just don't find the show particularly entertaining no matter how well written because I don't find politics as entertainment but as a philosophical drudgery.
0 Replies
 
Lusatian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2005 05:49 am
blatham wrote:
Apparently, aside from the color of the night sky, you and I agree on one other thing...Sorkin's genius.

I don't think we'll get far on the 'what is biased' and 'where is the center'. You use the phrase 'far, far left' above but there is almost nothing of a far far left in American political discourse, and has not been for decades. You've met how many Leninists this week?

But let's just take your third example. Republicans as the party of gay bashers. If one were to suggest that gay bashing sat moreso in the policy or rhetorical territory of either Republican or Democrat, where would you put it?


Yes, we do agree on Sorkin's genius. I am a fan of the man. He is a fantastic writer, though he does allow his personal beliefs to permeate almost everything he writes.

There is a colossal amount of "far, far left" in America's political spectrum. I will not say that I have met a Leninist this week, merely because such circumstances are impossible for me at this time. However, communists and socialists abound in the US. Offhand, visit almost any college or university campus. They are, thankfully, relegated outside of the mainstream, something we can commend ourselves for, as when allowed to run rampant their track record is dismal at best, and idiotic at second best. (Look at the former Soviet Bloc, Cuba, and even some European governments that allowed their leftist factions dominate their politics in the past.)

As to your simplistic answer to accusations of gay bashing, I'll agree that there are many fanatically members of the far right who take great offense to homosexuality. But to characterize the entire party as such is either very simpleminded, or just Republican-bashing. The fact is that I disagree, sharply at times, with much of the Republican platform, but they vastly out-perform Democrats in key issues that I believe dwarf all others. Democrats are consistantly, and seemingly irrevocably weak on national defense. Even Sorkin could not keep the impulse out of his show. His president is dithering when ordering military strikes, extremely critical of the missile shield, prone to giving in to terrorists - because the military cost might be greater. This nation was built by men who were willing to take up weapons to back their words. It seems sad that the left seems permanently in a post-Vietnam paralysis whenever military action is necessary.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2005 06:06 am
Lusatian wrote:
There is a colossal amount of "far, far left" in America's political spectrum. I will not say that I have met a Leninist this week, merely because such circumstances are impossible for me at this time. However, communists and socialists abound in the US. Offhand, visit almost any college or university campus. They are, thankfully, relegated outside of the mainstream, something we can commend ourselves for, as when allowed to run rampant their track record is dismal at best, and idiotic at second best. (Look at the former Soviet Bloc, Cuba, and even some European governments that allowed their leftist factions dominate their politics in the past.)


To be fair, the European governments allowed their leftist factions to dominate, the same way the US allowed their right-wing politics to dominate.

Europeans did it basically to avoid being more like the right-wing Nazis and the fascists before them.

Americans let right-wing politics dominate because left-wing was associated with Communism (which is on the left side of the political spectrum).
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2005 10:07 am
I'd sure like the details on this "colossal" amount of "far-far left" in America's political spectrum. Very rhetorical generalization and not evident at all the "The West Wing." I suppose someone "far-far right" would consider anything on the left as "far-far left." That's the real problem in American flaky politics.
0 Replies
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2005 12:29 pm
The crew in office on the West Wing are Democrats and I think they represent them exceptionally well.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 09:43 am
lusatian wrote
Quote:
Yes, we do agree on Sorkin's genius. I am a fan of the man. He is a fantastic writer, though he does allow his personal beliefs to permeate almost everything he writes.
Don't we all? Would Dennis Potter's screenplays reflect Joe Schmidlap's beliefs?

There is a colossal amount of "far, far left" in America's political spectrum.

Let's stop right here. What is 'far, far left?' exactly? How do you recognize it? What then would be merely 'far left', or 'left'? Is there a 'far, far right'? Could you point me to an instance of it? Where is the 'center'? Is that 'center' permanent or does it move with fashion/change in perception?

If you go to the writings of fairly strongly conservative thinkers from the fifties, they describe communism as 'the far left'.

Can you elucidate terminology so that we might continue, please.


I will not say that I have met a Leninist this week, merely because such circumstances are impossible for me at this time. However, communists and socialists abound in the US. Offhand, visit almost any college or university campus. They are, thankfully, relegated outside of the mainstream, something we can commend ourselves for, as when allowed to run rampant their track record is dismal at best, and idiotic at second best. (Look at the former Soviet Bloc, Cuba, and even some European governments that allowed their leftist factions dominate their politics in the past.)

As to your simplistic answer to accusations of gay bashing, I'll agree that there are many fanatically members of the far right who take great offense to homosexuality. But to characterize the entire party as such is either very simpleminded, or just Republican-bashing. The fact is that I disagree, sharply at times, with much of the Republican platform, but they vastly out-perform Democrats in key issues that I believe dwarf all others. Democrats are consistantly, and seemingly irrevocably weak on national defense. Even Sorkin could not keep the impulse out of his show. His president is dithering when ordering military strikes, extremely critical of the missile shield, prone to giving in to terrorists - because the military cost might be greater. This nation was built by men who were willing to take up weapons to back their words. It seems sad that the left seems permanently in a post-Vietnam paralysis whenever military action is necessary.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 09:47 am
The opposite could be stated that there is a collosal amount of far-far right in American politics. But can the be characterized as Nazis? I have seen some radical statements to that effect and, of course, I know it's just blowing off some steam in being politically incorrect. We have a joke around the OC about the mall Fashion Island, nestled right in the cetner of Newport Beach and Irvine, the epicenter of rightwing political denizens. It's called "Facist Island."
0 Replies
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 09:51 am
So With regard to West Wing, give us a prediction,
who will Hollywood replace Jed Bartlett with?
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 09:56 am
That's moving this closer to being on the TV forum!
0 Replies
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:02 am
"politics as entertainment "

Interesting, I work for the local government and see the two as synonymous.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:10 am
It works for the late night comics including Bill Maher, although he is the most seriously political of the lot. Watched Lewis Black's Broadway one-man-show again last night on HBO. He's got it nailed and is really funny and entertaining even with his often abrasive style. Just after his jokes about the quality of tap water and the dubiousness of bottled water, we had a news flash on our local TV stations for people who live in Bel Air to boil their water until further notice!
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 08:37 pm
Lightwizard:

Lewis Black's take on what happens when Republicans and Democrats cooperate is pretty accurate.

Democrats: The party of no ideas
Republicans: The party of bad ideas

And you'd boil your water, too, if you found out that all your bottled water came from some old couple filling bottles in their bathtub.

Lewis Black is hysterical. Black on Broadway is superb!!!
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 09:08 pm
duce wrote:
So With regard to West Wing, give us a prediction,
who will Hollywood replace Jed Bartlett with?


This began as an ode (or a diatribe) to The West Wing, so let's further that along with this news:

Quote:
NBC's 'West Wing' Election Is Up for Grabs

It's shaping up as the biggest political battle ever portrayed on a U.S. television series, but the executive producer of "The West Wing" swears he has no idea whether a Democrat or Republican will be elected the show's next president.

John Wells insists that real-life politics has little bearing on the outcome of the fictional White House race now unfolding on the Emmy-winning NBC series between candidates played by former "M*A*S*H" star Alan Alda (the Republican) and "NYPD Blue" veteran Jimmy Smits (the Democrat).

Instead, Wells says the show's next occupant of the Oval Office, succeeding current star Martin Sheen, will be determined by which character the writers ultimately feel is the "most compelling" to the audience.

"I don't know yet," Wells told a recent gathering of TV critics. "We actually watch what's happening between the cast members, the issues that are being presented ... and try and follow what makes the most story sense, what's giving you the greatest amount of drama."

The show, now in its sixth year as President Josiah "Jed" Bartlet (Sheen) nears the end of his second term, is building to a season-ending climax with back-to-back episodes depicting the Republican and Democratic national conventions.

Producers plan to return in the fall with the election, followed by the inauguration of a new president -- Smits or Alda -- next winter. Sheen will stay on into next season, but his profile will diminish as Bartlet returns to private life.

NUANCED CHARACTERS

"We're hoping that by the time we get into the fall, that there will be a real question in the viewer's mind as to who would make the better president," Wells said. "They both have their strengths and weaknesses."

Indeed, neither Smits' nor Alda's character is a party ideologue. Both depict candidates who are politically moderate and disarmingly likable -- far more nuanced than the Republican challenger played by James Brolin, who was defeated by Bartlet's re-election in the show's fourth season.

Smits portrays a young congressman from Houston, Matthew Santos, who is reluctantly recruited to run by Bartlet loyalist Josh Lyman. Alda plays veteran California Sen. Arnold Vinick, who throws his hat into the ring after his wife dies.

Both characters are endowed with a manifest integrity and thoughtfulness widely seen as rare inside the Beltway -- on either side of the aisle -- in keeping with "The West Wing's" enduring appeal as a show about wish fulfillment.

The show hit the peak of its popularity in its third season, ranking No. 9 among all prime-time series with 17 million viewers a week. It currently averages 11.8 million viewers, dropping to 33rd. But it remains a marquee element on NBC's lineup, having won the Emmy as best drama four years in a row and boasting the highest concentration of upscale viewers in all of TV, a key selling point with advertisers.

Wells said viewers should not assume that the Democratic affiliation of the show's current administration -- and all of its central characters -- has preordained a victory for Smits. Nor should they think that the current conservative climate in Washington necessarily spells a TV mandate for Alda.

EVEN-HANDED DRAMA

He noted that while Republicans now control the White House and both houses of Congress, public opinion polls show Americans "are mostly in the middle" on key issues that divide the two major parties.

Likewise, Wells dismissed what he called misconception about the show -- that its audience is overwhelmingly Democratic and agrees with Bartlet's politics.

"That's actually not true, and I can prove it by our mail bag ever week," he said. "We have a very, very large Republican audience that loves to watch the show and throw things at the screen."


I'm guessing Lusatian's in that group of viewers. :wink:

I have no prediction, duce. They'll focus-group the hell out of both scenarios and make a decision based on that, as well as how much Alda or Smits would respectively cost for the long term. They may not have to replace the entire cast of presidential staff if Democrat Santos/Smits gets 'elected', but that may actually be a good thing for the producers (new actors come cheaper; that's why the cast of 'Law and Order' keeps turning over. Actors want to work good programs and will take less to do so.)
0 Replies
 
Lusatian
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 09:34 am
I don't think Hollywood has the ability to field a show that promotes, defends, and propagates a right-wing administration and their policies. The only way I think it could be feasible is if said administration is the most moderate, centrist, diplomacy-loving, minority-coodling, anti-war, anti-wealthy (at least in rhetoric), "right" administration in history.

It would make exceeding sense to have the fictional election won by the Republican candidate. Mainly because if it's not the producers would be ignoring what will become nearly a decade of conservative politics, all in the name of ideology, which they vigorously deny. If you remember, the Democratic party has not come out well from any of the last four national elections. That the show is still spouting Clintonesque blase-blah even after September 11th, the Iraq war, Bali, and Beslan, could be taken as indicative of an ideological hangover that its writers and producers suffer from.

Weak and dithering people do tend to create weak and dithering characters, even in the realm of fiction. I doubt we'll see such a radical change in the remnants of the Woodstock, peace-piping generation that are behind practically all of the political statements out of southern California.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 10:05 am
Sorry, I'm having trouble taking anyone seriously who comes up with made up words like "blase-blah" Sorry, but the comment about all the political statements from Southern California is so silly, I will have to go on to more serious discussions.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 02:15 pm
Lusatian

I'm waiting for some clarification on your terminology, as per last post.

I nor anyone else have cause to take your posts seriously at this point.
0 Replies
 
Lusatian
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2005 11:16 am
Lightwizard, I know some people are daft to irony, but to try to jab by criticizing semantics is weak at best. Do you really think your linguistical lexicon is so unique? Sometimes people make up words, that's why the hyphen is there. But, don't let me stop you from getting back to "serious" discussions. Here's a couple of suggestions: How to recover from debilitating, and in your case, probably ego-wounding (another made up word, what do you know), losses in the political-idealogical spectrum. You're spiritual brethren have been mauled in the last four elections, I'm sure you could find a serious discussion needed there.

Blatham, I'm not sure what clarification you requested. And I suppose that comment you added for last was supposed to hurt. Damn, what will I do without the approval of a leftist Canadian? You have shamed me into silence. Laughing (By the way, I think your little picture rather suits you - parochial, affected, almost garish. Do you see yourself as appearing like the picture, is that why it's there?)
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2005 11:43 am
Making up meaningless words has little to do with semantics. It's the debilitating afflication of the psuedo-intellectual. Hyphens do not denote made up words as there are hundreds of hyphenated words in the dictionary. I wouldn't be talking about egos here -- yours is large enough for both of us. I wouldn't be gloating over the current complexion of politics in Washington as the pendulum swings back and forth. To state that one side has been "debilitated" in the last four elections admits that the Republicans have been debilitated in the past for many decades.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2005 02:05 pm
Lusatian wrote:


Blatham, I'm not sure what clarification you requested. And I suppose that comment you added for last was supposed to hurt. Damn, what will I do without the approval of a leftist Canadian? You have shamed me into silence. Laughing (By the way, I think your little picture rather suits you - parochial, affected, almost garish. Do you see yourself as appearing like the picture, is that why it's there?)


The request for clarification of terms was back a full page.

Lusatian said
Quote:
There is a colossal amount of "far, far left" in America's political spectrum.


blatham inquired
Quote:
Let's stop right here. What is 'far, far left?' exactly? How do you recognize it? What then would be merely 'far left', or 'left'? Is there a 'far, far right'? Could you point me to an instance of it? Where is the 'center'? Is that 'center' permanent or does it move with fashion/change in perception?

If you go to the writings of fairly strongly conservative thinkers from the fifties, they describe communism as 'the far left'.

Can you elucidate terminology so that we might continue, please.
0 Replies
 
 

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