24 Hours: Iraq Votes.

Brandon9000 wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
I'm sure everyone hopes that the sand maggot terrorists go crawl back in a hole, never to emerge again, due to the strength of the turnout.

But if they don't, do you think we should give up all of the gains that have been made?

The terrorists are one thing, all out civil war is another.

I'm inclined to continue to nudge the ocean liner back into productive waters, but if it starts to sink, I don't think we should choose to be dragged down with it.

Heaven forbid we should fight for someone's rights if it's difficult.

Brandon, we've already done a lot of difficult fighting for someone else's right to freedom (as well as benefits to our own concerns), and as long as the majority of Iraqi's seem to appreciate that and try to make use of that, then I think we probably did a good thing (at a high cost). But it's one thing to give a population assistance and opportunity and to let them make use of it, but it's quite another thing to step into an all out civil war and try to force our choices onto the population.

When I say we shouldn't go down with the ship, it's not because I don't think we should try to help, it's because there are some battles you just can't win at any cost, and suicide in the name of altruism isn't a wise course of action... Live to fight another day.

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Iraq vote heralds reform in Arab world-Jordan king

AMMAN, Jan 31 (Reuters) Iraq's election will help set the wheel of reform moving in the Arab world and ''there is no looking back'', Jordan's King Abdullah said today.

''I think what we saw yesterday in Iraq is a positive thing,'' King Abdullah told CNN a day after Iraq held its first multi-party election in 50 years. ''I think this is a thing that will set a good tone for the West Asia and I am optimistic.'' His remarks were the most supportive yet by an Arab leader of the US-backed political process in Iraq.

''People are waking up, (Arab) leaders understanding that they have to push reform forward and I don't think there is any looking back,'' said the king, a close ally of Washington.

He said he didn't believe autocratic Arab leaders were ''shaking in their boots'' because of the voting in Iraq but said political reform was now an open subject in Arab societies.

''Once you open the door to reform and it's allowed to be discussed in society, as it is throughout the Middle East, it is very difficult to close again,'' he said.

The monarch urged Iraq's new 275-member parliament, which is set to be dominated by Shi'ite Muslims and Kurds, to work for an inclusive administration that would embrace the Sunni Arab minority, which showed little enthusiasm for the election.

http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG4_sub.asp?newscode=91229&catcode=ENG4&subcatcode=

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I'm starting to become mildly nauseated by the coverage of the Iraq election is the (Oz) media. A spate of self-congratulatory articles written by the same old supporters of/apologists for Bush & Howard, implying that now that there's been an election that the invasion was justified. See, we were right, they crow! As if the "coalition of the willing" invaded Iraq with the sole purpose if installing democracy!
I'm just as happy as the next person to see the Iraqis voting, but hey, doesn't everyone want a say in what happens in their own country? Especially Iraqis, I reckon, who must be so anxious to put an end to the chaos in their country, to have some small say in what happens next. After years of sanctions, Saddam & invasion they'd really be longing for some semblance of control & normality. Good for them. But I can't imagine for a moment that most would be grateful for invasion & foreign occupation, say nothing of over 100 thousand dead Iraqis.

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msolga wrote:

I'm starting to become mildly nauseated by the coverage of the Iraq election is the (Oz) media. A spate of self-congratulatory articles written by the same old supporters of/apologists for Bush & Howard, implying that now that there's been an election that the invasion was justified.

They say the truth hurts sometimes, and you sound like you're in a lot of pain there.

Picture the demoKKKrats, and the suffering which this scene in Iraq must cause them.

I mean, it would be hard enough on them if Slick Clinton had been followed up by
an ordinary old-style republican like Herbert Hoover or Taft. Even that would
make them look very, very bad in comparison, but to have Clinton followed by a
truly righteous man who institutes policies based on principles and
righteousness must just hurt like hell.

http://www.createstudio.com/art/large/Redemption-Pain.jpg

http://home.student.uu.se/a/anli7609/pain.jpg

Democrat strategem to prevent world from seeing tears brought on by spread of democracy...

http://www.artfacts.net/exhibpics/11203.jpg

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Maybe it's a cultural-confusion thing, gungasnake, but what the hell was that last post about? Confused

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Very happy to see so many Iraqi citizens voting, even in the face of danger. very brave. Very hopeful.

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Lash wrote:

When we hear the stat here it is a percentage of registered voters. Who would tally the number of children and otherwise ineligibles that didn't vote?

Lash wrote:

Well, thanks. I was having a hard time trying to figure out why the liberals were trying to add in children and non-eligibles in the Iraq voter turn-out statistics. A desperate attempt to "fix things their way"...

Here in Europe you dont need to register to vote. In Holland, every citizen (national elections) or legal resident of over 5 years (local elections) automatically gets sent his voting card.

In America, you have to register to vote. That means that the number of registered voters is only a share of the number of people who would be eligible to vote - ie, all citizens over 18 years of age.

The question that was raised about the Iraq elections turnout is whether the turnout percentage is one of registered voters (those who faced the danger and went out to register themselves) or of eligible voters (all citizens over 18 years of age).

That question has nothing to do with "counting children" or any such nonsensical inference.

As was already pointed out to you on this thread - twice, I believe.

You'll have to set up some other straw man for your liberal-hating.

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Well, it's the same in Germany and all over Europe (not only in the EU).

Thanks for clearing that again.

(Although I admit, according to some [US] definitions, children can vote her - 'automatically' - as well: in a couple of German states (like mine) the legal age to vote is 16.)

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Lol - I believe it was about rampant provincialism Msolga!

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dlowan wrote:

Lol - I believe it was about rampant provincialism Msolga!

Thank you, Deb! I really was mystified!

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nimh wrote:

Very happy to see so many Iraqi citizens voting, even in the face of danger. very brave. Very hopeful.

Yes - I was reading about people who came back to vote after a man blew himself - and an unfortunate Iraqi guard - up at a polling booth.

If only they can keep the Shia folk involved and not fragment along those lines....

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msolga wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Lol - I believe it was about rampant provincialism Msolga!

Thank you, Deb! I really was mystified!

Lol - Gunga sees everything in terms of American political struggles and squabbles - actually, that is not entirely true to be fair. But that is what he was on about in that post.

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Ah, I see. I'm not in the political threads enough to know these things. :wink:

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As for registering to vote, they use it as a tool to weed out jury duty candidates. I guess they figure if you're a registered voter, you are more aware of your civil duties than those who abstain.

Personally, I abhor the jury duty process. Inevitably, when I get called it's a murder case, which will go on for months, and I have to figure a way out.

A good friend of mine actually got called for the Polly Klaus murder trial and stood in the courtroom with Richard Allen Davis. He was lucky to be excused from that one. Me, I would've just said "Fry the bastard" and I'd be booted.

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Last time I had jury duty I managed to prevent a politically correct DA from sending some poor soldier off to prision for a year and a half over absolutely nothing, which I figured was worth the waste of a day in my life.

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nimh wrote:

Lash wrote:
When we hear the stat here it is a percentage of registered voters. Who would tally the number of children and otherwise ineligibles that didn't vote?

Lash wrote:
Well, thanks. I was having a hard time trying to figure out why the liberals were trying to add in children and non-eligibles in the Iraq voter turn-out statistics. A desperate attempt to "fix things their way"...

Here in Europe you dont need to register to vote. In Holland, every citizen (national elections) or legal resident of over 5 years (local elections) automatically gets sent his voting card.

In America, you have to register to vote. That means that the number of registered voters is only a share of the number of people who would be eligible to vote - ie, all citizens over 18 years of age.

The question that was raised about the Iraq elections turnout is whether the turnout percentage is one of registered voters (those who faced the danger and went out to register themselves) or of eligible voters (all citizens over 18 years of age).

That question has nothing to do with "counting children" or any such nonsensical inference.

As was already pointed out to you on this thread - twice, I believe.

You'll have to set up some other straw man for your liberal-hating.

Funny. The "Well, thanks" post quoted above was my response to a liberal, who had made that very accusation about conservatives--or neo-cons. Inflating numbers for political expediency. BPB, I believe it was. But, of course, his neo-con hating is justified... Who do I think I am to turn it around and send it back to him? The nerve.

You've blended in to the pack.

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cjhsa wrote:

An amazing day in Iraq. If they can keep this freedom alive, it truly will be the first domino to fall. Imagine true democracy in the middle east. It's easy if you try.

For all of you who idolize John Lennon, well, Bush may just be your guy after all.

IS IMPOSSIBLE!

Cool

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

I would like to see Iraq become a self governing peaceful nation that enjoys individual human rights just as much as the most hard core neo con on this site or anywhere else....

Somehow, I doubt it.

but if it comes to a civil war it needs to be them fighting among themselves....and our boys coming home...we leveled the field for them...literally. We need to come home. It's up to them now.....cost and responsibility of freedom and all.... that's the mantra of the right correct?

A ridiculous "But." It hasn't come to civil war.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
I'm sure everyone hopes that the sand maggot terrorists go crawl back in a hole, never to emerge again, due to the strength of the turnout.

But if they don't, do you think we should give up all of the gains that have been made?

Do you think the frogs and the U.N. will want to step in to maintain the state that the U.S. helped create?

Then annex them and make them a US territory, that's what we've virtually done anyway....at what point do we prop them up at the expense of our own country? There are many who think that point has been reached and surpassed....

There are many who are idiots.

Concluding that Iraq is or is substantially a US territory is idiotic.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
I'm sure everyone hopes that the sand maggot terrorists go crawl back in a hole, never to emerge again, due to the strength of the turnout.

But if they don't, do you think we should give up all of the gains that have been made?

The terrorists are one thing, all out civil war is another.

I'm inclined to continue to nudge the ocean liner back into productive waters, but if it starts to sink, I don't think we should choose to be dragged down with it.

great post

Civil War?

Where?

Some of you folks are getting well ahead of yourselves.

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24 Hours: Iraq Votes.

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