We married and he changed...help!?

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A verbal abuser will want to control your life, even in tiny ways. That's a key to whether he's an abuser or just insecure: An abuser will try to control you, to have everything his way or make you face "punishment." He may feel threatened by your friends, your pets, your job, your hobbies, anything you could possibly care about "more than him." The fact is, we all need these other things, and it is not a spouse's place to prevent you from having them.

Obviously I have seen these traits in him. Last night for the first time since we married, I asked if he'd mind if I played soft music to fall asleep to. He likes the tv on, but has learned to turn the volume off. I used to sleep to soft music aaaalllllllllllll the time, and have missed it. He made a number of smart ass comments, and since I'm hyper-sensitive right now, I asked if he was joking. He said yes, but grumbled anyway. I slept wonderfully. Very Happy

He put the CD player away immediately this morning, though...but that could be because he's a neat freak.

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Even if he is just insecure, he's going to have to learn new ways to deal with things if you're ever going to be happy with him. So the counseling is a must-have, and I'm glad you're going ahead with it.

Appointmet in 3 weeks. Looks like I'm going alone, though. Sad

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An abuser doesn't care whether you're happy as long as you do what he wants.

I am keeping my eyes open for any other warning signs. The example I gave about the CD player might be nothing, but if he acts like a butt again tonight, then I'll know that he really is someone I need to be wary of. Are there additional sites that any of you know of that clearly illustrate warning signs of soon-to-be abusers? I have visited a few.

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Would he be willing to go through a book with you? A good one is "Fighting for Your Marriage," by Markman, Stanley, and Blumberg. This will give you something positive to do while you wait for your appointment, and just addressing these problems seriously may help a lot. A book like this, and his reactions to it, can help you decide whether your relationship is ultimately do-able.

Agreed, but no. I tried to get him to go through a book that Dr. Phil wrote (Saving Your Marriage, or something like that), but he despises Dr. Phil and so refused. Likewise, he doesn't see how books can or should help a relationship, so that's out of the question. Really, he has become (or really was) very close-minded.

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I'm afraid only time will tell, and Brooke is right that it could be years before he becomes physically violent. In the meantime, think about YOURSELF, and what YOU need to be happy. This will serve you well in either case.

Keep checking in with us, OK? And chin up....I think you're doing the right things!

*sigh* and thanks. One step at a time. I've made changes in other areas of my life that are small but very important. Ever since I really realized just how ignorant I'd become, I've been doing everything to re-learn how to listen to myself and what's important for me. That's going to take a while, but I know I'm on the right track.

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There is always a fear inside an abusers mind that someone or something will become forefront in the relationship. During a time when he is trying to gain power over his victim....it can become quite bizarre, the things he will find as his competition. It can be something simple like a newspaper or the tv. ANYTHING at all that distracts his victim

I have always thought his jealousy over my cats to be very, very bizarre. In fact, that reminds me of something that happened recently. He started to try to make friends with the cats, and wanted me to witness his efforts, then he stopped. So I asked how things were going, and he told me that he feels like he's on parole when I ask him that question. He went on to explain that he doesn't want to be forced and that it takes time and that he doesn't want me staring over his back... Rather than get upset with him, I told him to think about what he was saying. My instant reaction was to spout that he should have been doing this a year ago and that I have every right to make sure he's finally following through. Evil or Very Mad

Am I wrong?

Again, thanks for all your help.

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Zelanicat, May I ask why you and your husband had three months of pre-marital counseling? Was this a standard requirement of the person who was going to perform the marriage ceremony? If not, who decided this much counseling was necessary? What I'm wondering is whether you two anticipated problems in your marriage--and if so, why?

You certainly have your hands full right now. It seems as if you are making much, much more of an effort to set your marriage back on track than your husband is.

Like some of the others who have replied to your question, I, too, have some concerns about the age difference--which is quite large. It is a truism that, as people grow older, they generally become less flexible. It's tough to make major behavioral changes at your age; but in one's 50's, really hard. When I was in my early 50's, my wife suggested that I learn how to give over more time simply to enjoying myself and to spending more time with my friends. Talk about an unselfish suggestion! And one that had pleasure as a goal. I realized that I DID spend too much time in activities that I could define as either "constructive" or "good works"--and that, if I learned to enjoy some healthy down-time, both I and my wife would benefit. So, I set to work to look for more open hours, more fun. I thought this would be pretty easy; I was very wrong. I had always lived in a rush, and I was virtually addicted to it. I read somewhere a wonderful comment by the mother of a gifted child: "He seems to feel that anything worth doing is worth doing to excess." This child was still me! The change took me several years--involving lots of helpful coaching from my wife and some time with a therapist.

You want your husband to make changes that he does NOT perceive as advantageous to him; he doesn't want your help; he doesn't want a therapist's help; he seems to want to be left alone--but in control of you! I cannot help but think that the man who courted you was a persona, designed to be appealing to you. A person this much older than you, having more life experience, may well have been able to pull this off without your noticing anything--until the sudden change right after your marriage. So, please don't blame yourself.

You seem to be walking the extra mile, while your husband has not even moved from the starting line. Please do keep your appointment for counseling, even if you go by yourself. You need support for yourself as a full person, and you don't seem to be getting any from the logical and expected source.
Hang in there, persist, believe in yourself. I wish you the best.

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This is getting very difficult... Sad

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------------------------------------------------------------------------Zelanicat, May I ask why you and your husband had three months of pre-marital counseling? Was this a standard requirement of the person who was going to perform the marriage ceremony?

A requirement of the pastor who married us, plus I wanted to. Yes, I saw some potential issues regarding age difference, but nothing this extreme.

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It seems as if you are making much, much more of an effort to set your marriage back on track than your husband is.

Precisely. The last 2 nights are case in point...and I don't know what to do. My counseling appointment is in 11 days, and I am at a total loss. I think my husband is either stupid or a completely selfish man. Here's the basics of what happened. Two nights ago, I came home a bit later than expected. I had called to say I'd be late (problems with the horse), and when I arrived, things seemed fine. We talked about what interested him. Then I told him I'd had a disagreement with my mother and would like to talk about that. He disregarded me and turned back to planning his next landscaping project. I left him alone but asked later if we could talk about my mother. Nothing. I asked if he was okay and he said he was concentrating on his project. Again, I waited, and when he was done, I brought it up again. He changed the subject and made it clear he didn't want to talk. I gave up. Stupidly, I tried to cuddle with him later that night, and he yanked the pillow from under me (purposeful or not, I really don't know), but it still stung. Then the next morning I heard the cats scramble through their kitty door, so I knew they were still running from him. (NOTE: he stopped actively trying to make friends with them even though he said he would.) I asked how things were going with the cats and he got defensive and told me that he didn't like my looking over his shoulder.

So I was a bit upset. I calmly told him that disregarding what I wanted to talk about, pulling the pillow, and then getting angry at me for asking about the cats makes me feel unloved.

His response? To leave without saying a word through the bathroom door (so he wouldn't have to see the cats). I told him that was "really mature." (which is very toned down for me). He called me at work and apologized for the way he left.

The following night, I set the stage by still being resentful. A money issue came up in which I asked him to do something in addition to what we'd already agreed upon. He didn't want to because it involved his ex, so we argued. He said I was changing our agreement, and I pointed out how the way he is feeling is exactly how I feel about how he treats the cats. So he got really mad and told me that he didn't mean his apology that morning and couldn't believe that he had to apologize for something he didn't do, and in the course of our argument, we came back to his ex, and told me to call her. So I called him an uncaring, f-ing wimp.

We didn't speak the rest of the night. I apologized this morning for calling him a wimp and I asked if we could try and talk again tonight. He doesn't want to, and he left without a goodbye. I left a note on the bed (he gets home first) apologizing again for calling him a wimp and asking to please work things out with me.

I doubt we will tonight...or ever. I allowed him to mistreat me for a year, so the pattern is set. Divorce is looking more and more like a necessity. In a very sick way, I want him to hurry up and hit me so that I can finally be in a state of decisiveness: I will undoubtetdly know what to do. I'll leave him. Either that or hurry up and be the man he used to/pretended to be. Either we're working to improve or we're ending it, and I'm in neither place right now. I do not know which direction to move and I feel I am in a maze with no end in sight. I do not like that feeling.

Here's something pathetic: our home is beautifully decorated and landscaped because of our combined efforts. I keep thinking, "How can such a beautiful product be from two people who don't belong married?" Worse, there are many moments when he is the man I married...just very inconsistently. (like this weekend when we went on an over-nighter and laughed and carried on like old times!!!!)

My world is even more of a roller coaster ride now than ever. I thought that by sitting back and observing my behavior and his that I could arrive at a better conclusion, see what I had done wrong, what he had done wrong, how to improve...and it's only making matters worse. Since I am now paranoid of being his door mat, I have become incredibly defensive and harsh. Yes, I am very, very angry at him, but I do love him. It's like growing up with a drunk parent.

Well, I don't know if any responses anyone has to give will be any different from before, but I needed to rant, to see my thoughts in writing. I am tired, though, so tired.

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I wrote a lengthy response, but it wouldn't "load" when I hit the submit button. The Able2Know website must have a lot of traffic over the noon hour . . .

To make a long story short, I think you would greatly benefit from exploring and studying the relationship concepts that are explained on the following website:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/

If you do so, I believe that you will gain the clarity that you are seeking . . .

Best wishes!

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Yes, a2k was going through some loading problems earlier today.

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Aw, Zelanicat, I hate to hear you're so unhappy. It sounds to me like there's some underlying issue here that's not getting talked about. Do you think that could be so? If it's the case, I'm not sure how you could approach the issue or start to work it out, if possible, but hopefully your therapist will have some ideas.

Recent events sound like bad times in almost any marriage. Sometimes every little thing just pisses one/both persons off, a lot. Usually there's some big thing that's underneath it all. I'm not sure if it's just his nature that's the problem, or something else.

Are you still doing your daily walks? They should help a bit. Also, sometimes a Time Out can help, spending an evening or weekend day (or longer) away from each other, planned ahead so you both know you're taking the time to cool down, alone. Writing things down can help, as can spending time with friends or just doing things you like to do by yourself.

Sometimes a marriage just has to go into a holding pattern until both partners figure out where they want to go from here. Often it's the most difficult part of the relationship, harder than actually separating. What does he think of a separation, even a sort-of Test one?

I'll bet you're really looking forward to your appointment.....I know I would be! Big hugs to you, I know this is hard. (((Zelanicat)))

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Zelanicat, Just being with your husband full-time right now must be tremendously wearing on your spirits. I agree with BorisKitten's suggestion of a Time Out--you need a break to collect your thoughts in peace. However, I do worry that if you suggest some time apart, you may be raising your husband's greatest fear: that you will leave him for good. He might then be very angry--or, then again, he might go back into courtship mode, trying to win your heart again. Of those two possible reactions--and there may well be others--it's easier for me to believe in the genuineness of the former, the anger, rather than the latter, the sweet talk.

The pulling away of your pillow is one of those small gestures that may reveal a lot. It strikes me as real anger. To this very unfriendly move, one adds your husband's persistent self-centeredness (his jealousy of your time with your horse; his resentment of the cats; refusing to talk with you about your mother, because he'd rather talk about something of interest to him [meaning that your own mother is of no consequence to him!]; his sticking you with the telephone call to his ex-wife, because he doesn't want to deal with it, etc.), and one cannot help but feel it unlikely that this guy is going to change. Also, his taking back of his apology, besides being childish, casts considerable doubt on whether he meant the apology when he first made it. The mechanism of this turnabout is, sadly, reminiscent of the his apparent turnabout in personality that you mention in your first post.

I feel really sorry about your situation. Profound change is needed--and your husband doesn't seem interested in (or, perhaps, capable of) making and maintaining a major change. Do try to take a break from this scene--but do be cautious. If he turns angry, and realizes he may lose you, he might accuse you of desertion. You mention thinking of divorce. Even if this doesn't occur, it's enough of a possibility that you might well benefit from talking over your situation with a good lawyer, right now. Being prepared for serious possibilities is just common sense. If you do not like the notion of seeing a lawyer, how about making an appointment for a long chat with the pastor who married you. Someone who is bound by laws of confidentiality really should know what you're going through. The therapist will likely be able to assist you, too. Don't feel that seeing a therapist, a lawyer, and your pastor is overkill. Please don't try to go this alone; this is one of those complex times in your life when you need help.

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I, again, thank you all for your insights and posts. Very Happy

I made a decision last night: I'm preparing for the worst (divorce) by getting my finances in order and setting up ways to protect myself. I wish I could say that I didn't want that to happen, but right now, I do. He is draining my spirit and is so callous that just being away from him at work is a refresher. I also realized that the one person who is supposed to be strongest supporter is my strongest opponent. That's not right. Anyway, there is a great pressure relieved knowing that I'm not wavering back and forth...I'll prepare for the worst and work to protect myself.

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Aw, Zelanicat, I hate to hear you're so unhappy. It sounds to me like there's some underlying issue here that's not getting talked about. Do you think that could be so? If it's the case, I'm not sure how you could approach the issue or start to work it out, if possible, but hopefully your therapist will have some ideas.

hmmm...underlying issues...*thinking* Mine? I'm still breaking out of the roll of Peace Maker and the need to have constant external approval. I also have Panic Disorder, which was diagnosed 2 years before I met Rob. I've seen therapists on and off for, geez, nearly 6 years, though none in the last 2, until now. (I still see the doctor every 3 months and am on the lowest dose possible to control the attacks, so all is good in that area.)

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Recent events sound like bad times in almost any marriage. Sometimes every little thing just pisses one/both persons off, a lot. Usually there's some big thing that's underneath it all. I'm not sure if it's just his nature that's the problem, or something else.

I think it's the underlying issue: he is an extremely insecure man. Or I'm a demanding, unrealistic bitch. Or maybe a combination of the two.

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Are you still doing your daily walks? They should help a bit. Also, sometimes a Time Out can help, spending an evening or weekend day (or longer) away from each other, planned ahead so you both know you're taking the time to cool down, alone. Writing things down can help, as can spending time with friends or just doing things you like to do by yourself.

Daily walks have been replaced this week by prepping for a horse show, but I'm still getting the exercise. A lenghthy "time out" from him would spark more problems that I am tired of dealing with. I have the horse show this weekend to give me space from him, so that will have to suffice for now.

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Sometimes a marriage just has to go into a holding pattern until both partners figure out where they want to go from here. Often it's the most difficult part of the relationship, harder than actually separating. What does he think of a separation, even a sort-of Test one?

I feel like we're in a holding pattern as of last night. A test separation? He'd freak. Besides, we have his 18 year old son living with us.

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He might then be very angry--or, then again, he might go back into courtship mode, trying to win your heart again. Of those two possible reactions--and there may well be others--it's easier for me to believe in the genuineness of the former, the anger, rather than the latter, the sweet talk.

I thought about playing the "I'm leaving you" card, but chose not to until I mean it. First, I believe he'd react with anger. Second, even if he did start the sweet talk, it wouldn't matter. He's proven himself to be a fantastic actor. Once he's won me back, he'll revert back to the sh!t head that he is.
So I'm just preparing, and when I'm ready to file, then I'll tell him and won't fall for his cr@p anymore.

I guess I'm getting angry. Rolling Eyes

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The pulling away of your pillow is one of those small gestures that may reveal a lot. It strikes me as real anger.

In retrospect, me too. He knew I was cuddling him.

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The mechanism of this turnabout is, sadly, reminiscent of the his apparent turnabout in personality that you mention in your first post.

And how many more turnabouts will I have to endure? Evil or Very Mad

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Profound change is needed--and your husband doesn't seem interested in (or, perhaps, capable of) making and maintaining a major change.

I think he loves me, but in his own way, and in his world that means I should be thrilled with whatever he dishes out. Since he's not bothered to make any lasting change--except when he reverted to his true self--then my hopes about my marriage surviving are extremely low.

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Zelnicat, I am greatly relieved to hear that you are in preparation for changes you may need to make. Hope that you enjoy being at the horse show this weekend. The biggest prize may be simply being there.

Panic disorder is eminently treatable--and, if your logical, thoughtful posts are indicative of your state of mind (under extremely adverse conditions), your disorder must be well under control. Don't psych yourself out to any degree: I don't think your well-treated disorder has anything to do with your husband's behavior. He seems to have started acting rudely all on his own. Think positively and confidently; you've got it together; and you, with some good advice, will make excellent descisions.

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Zelanicat - Good girl!

It is important that you have all your "ducks in a row", before you break the news. I would also suggest that you contact an attorney, especially if there are any potential legal issues.

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Miklos,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. No, I don't think my anxiety issue is the fault here since it is so under control.

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Think positively and confidently; you've got it together; and you, with some good advice, will make excellent descisions.

A good friend of mine told me that no one can control how I feel except for me. I think he had to tell me that about, oh...100+ times, but it finally sank. I've acknowledged my feelings, but I choose to enjoy my life--with or without his help. Yes, the horse show will be wonderful!

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It is important that you have all your "ducks in a row", before you break the news. I would also suggest that you contact an attorney, especially if there are any potential legal issues.

Agreed. I want to meet with the counselor first, then find a way to break the news to my parents. Poor folks. They've gone through so much to show they accept him and now this. It's not like it's a surprise since they already know about the marital counseling. Besides, they would want to help me protect myself should I have to file for divorce. And they've got connections with good lawyers.

Thanks again. I'll keep you folks updated!!!

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Zelanicat wrote:

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Aw, Zelanicat, I hate to hear you're so unhappy. It sounds to me like there's some underlying issue here that's not getting talked about. Do you think that could be so? If it's the case, I'm not sure how you could approach the issue or start to work it out, if possible, but hopefully your therapist will have some ideas.

hmmm...underlying issues...*thinking* Mine? I'm still breaking out of the roll of Peace Maker and the need to have constant external approval.

I'm glad to hear you're getting angry about this, Zelanicat, since I think that will be your first step to a happier life. Actually, I wasn't thinking you had underlying issues, I was thinking he did. After thinking about it, he clearly does, but since these changes started right after your marriage did, it doesn't look very hopeful that he'll be able to work through his issues.

I guess my real question was, "What's he so mad about all the time, anyway?" Some people are just angry to be alive. Maybe he's one of them, deep down, and you only found out AFTER your marriage. That's bad news, but it does mean there is a way out for you, a way to a MUCH happier life.

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Recent events sound like bad times in almost any marriage. Sometimes every little thing just pisses one/both persons off, a lot. Usually there's some big thing that's underneath it all. I'm not sure if it's just his nature that's the problem, or something else.

I think it's the underlying issue: he is an extremely insecure man. Or I'm a demanding, unrealistic bitch. Or maybe a combination of the two.

I don't think you'e been demanding of him at all, at least from what you've written here. In fact you've been exceptionally accomodating. You've certainly been a great deal more patient and understanding than I would have been in your shoes. And I'm afraid you're correct about his insecurities.

I'm sorry if I said stupid things in my post. I didn't mean to belittle your situation or blame you for his faults, at all. I think you're definitely heading in the right direction, and to me, you sound really together, esp. for going through an exceptionally difficult time.

One thing I have to mention is, it's better to be safe than sorry....if he finds out about your preparations for your own life, there's a chance he might become violent, and it could take only one incident to kill you. PLEASE take great care while separating from this man, Zelanicat. Your saying he would "freak" if you tried separation frightens me.

I think both caution and hope for your future are in order. You're doing all the right things...just keep on, and hey, think of yourself first! Smile

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Prior to the marriage, in the courtship phase, HE made huge deposits in the love bank.

He pretended to love spending time with his sweety and her horses -- when he didn't enjoy it. He just did it to give his sweety a false impression.

He pretended to love cuddling and massaging his sweety -- when he didn't enjoy it. He just did it to make her think he was considerate when he wasn't.

He pretended to love her cats -- when he can't really stand them.

Once SHE said, "I do," HE stopped making deposits into the love bank. Instead, he has been refusing to meet her emotional needs (why bother anymore, he won the prize). He is making huge withdrawals from the love bank.

NOW she is stuck with someone who is unwilling and/or incapable of meeting her emotional needs. He only did it during the courtship in order to capture her heart and now the courtship is OVER.

Relationship Concepts:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html

marriage builders website wrote:

The Love Bank

Inside all of us is a Love Bank with accounts in the names of everyone we know. When these people are associated with our good feelings, "love units" are deposited into their accounts, and when they are associated with our bad feelings, love units are withdrawn. We are emotionally attracted to people with positive balances and repulsed by those with negative balances. This is the way our emotions encourage us to be with people who seem to treat us well, and avoid those who seem to hurt us.

The emotional reactions we have toward people, whether its attraction or repulsion, is not a matter of choice. Love Bank balances cause them. Try "choosing" to be attracted to those you associate with some of your worst experiences -- it's almost impossible. Or try to feel repulsed by those associated with your best feelings. You do not decide whom you will like or dislike -- it's their association with your feelings, whether they have made Love Bank deposits or withdrawals, that determines your emotional reactions to them.

We like those with positive Love Bank balances and dislike those with negative balances. But if an account reaches a certain threshold, a very special emotional reaction is triggered -- romantic love. We no longer simply like the person -- we are in love. It's a feeling of incredible attraction to someone of the opposite sex.

The feeling of love is the way our emotions encourage us to spend more time with someone who takes especially good care of us -- someone who is effective in making us very happy, and also knows how to avoid making us unhappy. We would certainly want to spend time with someone we simply liked, but by giving us the feeling we call love, our emotions give us added motivation. We find ourselves not only wanting to be with the person, but also craving that person. When we are together we feel fulfilled, and when apart we feel lonely and incomplete. So the feeling of love is usually effective not only in drawing people together for significant amounts of time, but also in encouraging them to spend their entire lives together in marriage.

But our emotions give us more than the feeling of love. When they identify someone who makes us happy, they also motivate us to reciprocate by encouraging us to make that person happy. They do this by making it seem almost effortless to do what makes most of us the happiest. Have you ever noticed that when you are in love, you seem instinctively affectionate, conversant, admiring and willing to make love? That's because your emotions want to keep that person around, so it gives you instincts to help you make that person happy which, if effective, triggers his or her feeling of love for you. The "look of love" not only communicates our feeling of love for someone, but also reflects our instinct to do whatever it takes to make that person happy.

When a man and woman are both in love, their emotions are encouraging them to make each other happy for life. In fact, the thought of spending life apart is usually frightening. It seems to them that they were made to be together for eternity. In almost every case, a man and woman marry because they are in love, and they are in love because their love bank balances are above the romantic love threshold.

But what goes up can usually come down, and love bank balances are no exception. As almost every married couple has discovered, the feeling of romantic love is much more fragile than originally thought. And if Love Bank balances drop below the romantic love threshold, a couple not only lose their feeling of passion for each other, but they lose their instinct to make each other happy. What was once effortless now becomes awkward, and even repulsive. Instead of the look of love, couples have the look of apathy. And without love, a husband and wife no longer want to spend their lives together. Instead, they start thinking of divorce, or at least living their lives apart from one another.

It should be obvious to you by now that the Love Bank is an extremely important concept in marriage. If you want your instincts and emotions to support your marriage you must keep your love bank accounts over the romantic love threshold. But how can you keep your balances that high? And what can you do if they have already fallen below that threshold?

I've worked long and hard to find an answer to those questions, because that answer holds the key to saving marriages. Without love, spouses are very poorly motivated to remain married for life, but with the restoration of love and its accompanying instinct to spend life together, the threat of divorce is overcome. Marriages are saved when love is restored.

All of my remaining basic concepts will help me explain the answer to those questions, but the general principle is simple: Couples must make as many Love Bank deposits as possible and avoid making withdrawals if they want a happy and fulfilling marriage. And to achieve this, behavior must change. A husband and wife must learn to do things that make each other happy, and learn to stop doing things that make each other unhappy.

The next concept will help you understand why you behave the way you do, and what you can do to change your behavior.

Next Concept:
Instincts and Habits

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I have an update. And thank you debra_law for the insight.

This morning--after a series of arguments--he said he'd rather pay for a divorce than counseling and adamantly refused to go. I even gave him an ultimatum (counseling or divorce) and he chose divorce. He was even business like about how to go through with it and "let's not get ugly" about it bla bla bla. I foolishly spent the better part of the day in tears only to return home to the jeckyl/hyde version of the nice Rob. He had dinner made and was waiting for me. He said he'd go to counseling. That was simply too much to bear. I broke into tears and refused to eat with him. I didn't want to be near him. He says he was wrong and apologized about a million times but I have absolutely lost the ability to trust him. Worse I think he's playing me. He knows how to manipulate my emotions. So to avoid him I got on line and have been here for an hour.

I know that I cannot live like this: the emotional up-downs the empty promises all of it. He'll "behave" for a week and then return to the sh!t head he really is. I want out. I want a divorce but how to keep my head above the emotional crap that comes along???

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Zelanicat:

You're going through a difficult time.

Read the articles on the marriage builder's website. Go to counseling with your husband. Let him know there needs to be some substantial, long-lasting changes because you can't continue on this emotional rollercoaster.

If divorce is truly in your future, you will know when you're ready and you will be able to cope. You're stronger than you give yourself credit.

Best wishes.

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Zelanicat, sorry to hear this is a difficult time. If I were you, I'd go to a counselor alone, whether you also see one with him or not.

Support yourself in this, and look towards your own future, because you'll spend the rest of your life with yourself either way. Best of luck & happiness to you!

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Zelnicat, So sorry to hear that your rough times continue--and seem to have grown rougher. If you don't want to eat with him, you don't want to be near him, and you are constantly in tears because you are being treated like a yo-yo--then, you need to talk with someone trustworthy and stable, right NOW. Lawyers and shrinks are sometimes difficult to see in a hurry. If they are not quickly available, how about the minister with whom you had such lengthy pre-marriage counseling? Why wait for your husband to string you along any further, saying yes, I'll go to counseling, no I want a divorce (but civilized!), no I'll go to counseling, etc., etc.? I agree with Boriskitten: go alone to a counselor now; get something good going for yourself. If your lawyer says, as he/she most likely will, that it is okay for you to leave your house, do so. Do you have a female friend you can stay with for awhile? You need a break! Get the ball rolling with lawyer, shrink, minister--or all three--then, perhaps, go spend some time with your horse, who is fun to be with and has a stable, non-abusive personality.

Best wishes and good luck! Please keep us posted .

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Debra_Law,
I will go over to that site tonight; at work it's a bit difficult. As for when I know it's time, I feel it's now. Then again, I'm very bitter and very angry. I'm trying to set up a time with a counselor, but it's not going well.

As for the situation itself, here's what I think is happening now. I think good ole hubby is kissing up because he wants me to go to Texas with him. We'd been planning for months to visit his family there, but that came to a grinding halt when he told me that he thought we had no hope in one breath and with the next said, "But please act like everything is okay when we're in Texas." WHAT!? So since that event and everything else that followed, I told him that I am not going to Texas. In fact, I'm making arrangements to go to Maine (my aunt offered airline tickets for me to get away).

In my bittered state, I want to bonk him over the head for acting so kind and sweet after all the cr@p that came out of him the other day. I mean, he was so very BUSINESS LIKE! No emotions, no nothing! And when he saw my tears (curse it), he wanted to hug me and hold me and tell me everything was okay--though he wasn't going to counseling. All I could think of was "what kind of psycho are you?" and so I left to the barn asap.

So, to be fair (because of my royally vicious state), am I being fair to the marriage by refusing to go to Texas with him?

-a very angry Zel Evil or Very Mad

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Why would you want to go to Texas to provide window-dressing for a man who thinks your marriage has "no hope"? It would seem to be an expensive charade, designed to deceive his family. Why be part of a deception? Fair to the marriage?! Think about being fair to yourself and to the folks in Texas. Neither you nor they have anything to gain by this trip. The only "winner" would be your husband, who seems to be an expert manipulator.

Your aunt has a very good idea. You need to get away--and talk with someone who is sensible. Hope you'll go see her!

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If the choice is Maine or Texas, I'd vote for visiting your aunt in Maine. If a third choice is letting him go to Texas while you stay behind and sort out your affairs and make preparations to move on then I'd suggest that instead. Do you have any concerns with leaving your animals behind while you visit your aunt, or would your trip and his trip coincide?

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We married and he changed...help!?

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