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Tirpitz, the Building of Battleships and WWI

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 07:13 am
Acquiunk wrote:
Set, the Germans had an aircraft carrier on the drawing boards. Given their awareness of anti aircraft defense needs of capital ships and the fleet in general (ie AA armament) why did they not build one, or more?


Some info about the "Europa", the "Odin"*, the "Graf Zeppelin" and the "Seydlitz" is to be found on this site HERE

* During my time at the navy, we've been quite a few times alonside the "Odin". However, it was quite a different ship (a repair ship, Achelous Class, ex-LST 726)
0 Replies
 
Ed Toner
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 07:19 am
Setana - Good one.

ac - The carrier was actually built, but never quite completed. It was a beauty, too. I'll do a search and see if I can find it when I have a bit more time.

OK - Here it is, The Graff Zepplin.

http://tinyurl.com/2a3d9

Somewhere out there a photo exists, along with the plans, etc. A modern carrier she was.

Click on the links for more info, including a photo of The Prinz Eugen.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 07:29 am
Ed Toner wrote:
Somewhere out there a photo exists, along with the plans, etc. A modern carrier she was.

Click on the links for more info, including a photo of The Prinz Eugen.


Plans and more info are on given on the link I gave above.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 07:30 am
Walter, ET, thanks for the links, I was unaware of much of this.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 09:03 am
Acq, I would suggest to you that the Navy suffered from being low on the list of Nazi priorities. Raeder didn't like Hitler, made no attempt to hide his contempt, and refused to cooperate: he would not adopt the Nazi salute, he would not allow the Navy to take the personal oath of loyalty to Hitler, he would not provide a list of Jewish officers. (So, at any event, i have read.) Hitler very quickly overextended his military assets, and those efforts or services which were unpopular with him suffered from neglect. Without the invasion of the Soviet Union, more than sufficient resources would have been available for all of the services, and development could have occurred at a tremendous rate--the Germans cede noting to any other nation in industrial excellence. But once embroiled in the Soviet Union, Germany needed all of her resources simply to maintain the army--inevitably, other endeavors suffered, and one after the other, civilian enterprises, research and development and the deployment of new aircraft and systems, and new naval vessels and systems, fell by the wayside. I've always said, and i will repeat it, Hitler was the best ally the Allies had.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 09:16 am
Isn't it the case, and I'm no expert on this, that Hitler feared Stalin would attack him, and so got his strike in first? Russia was becoming stronger militarily, and Hitler thought his best chance was to go in early.
So, at any rate, I have heard.
Which was a big stroke of luck for us...although my German could perhaps have been better now, had things at that time turned out differently. :wink:
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 10:03 am
That may be the case, McT; however, i would point to Hitler's "lebensraum" claptrap, and suggest that he had the invaion and annexation of the Ukraine in mind long before he even came to power.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 02:10 pm
Ed Toner wrote:

Somewhere out there a photo exists, along with the plans, etc. A modern carrier she was.


http://home.t-online.de/home/jgust/zeppeli2.jpg

Launching of 'Graf Zeppelin' on 08.12.1938 at Deutsche Werke, Kiel, Germany.

http://www.deutsche-kriegsschiffe.de/Schiffe/flugzeugtraeger/fotos/graf-zeppelin01.jpg

http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/pics-andere/traeger-graf-zeppelin.jpg



'Graf Zeppelin', on the way to or in Szczecin/Stettin in 1942, is to be seen on this page.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 02:48 pm
Well, this actually wasn't exactly true:

"GRAF ZEPPELIN, NEW BATTLESHIP, REACHES NORWAY"
(GLOBE AND MAIL, 1942/03/07) downloadable pdf-file (!) HERE

"NAZIS' SEA POWER EBBS TO NEW LOW": an article from the New York Times (1944/01/02), to be downloaded as pdf-file (!) HERE
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thehamster
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2004 11:00 am
Re: Tirpitz, the Building of Battleships and WWI
Walter Hinteler wrote:
"Them that have, gets" might the German Emperor William II have thought.
But " Pride goeth before the fall" history proved.


Sorry Walter, I don't wanna sound fussy, but would you like to edit your post to make the 3rd Emperor of the German Reich be more like "Wilhelm II"?
About Wilhelm II
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thehamster
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2004 11:04 am
Whooops my bad...Wilhelm I was the 1st and Wilhelm II the 2nd Emperor of Germany, right?
Then the website the link above points to must be a little flawed.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2004 07:20 pm
hi hamster : that is indeed WILHELM II (commonly known to the germans as KAISER WILHELM). as you no doubt know, he was germany's last emporer. just reading an interesting book called ANGLOMANIA - a european love affair by ian buruma. it deals with the obsession of the continental europeans to be "english gentleman" , while at the same time looking down at their noses at the english. kaiser wilhelm is given a whole chapter titled "the anglomane who hated england". i guess he was kind of a strange bird, dressing up in british naval uniforms and even tartans while at the same time despising the english. i'm quite enjoying the book. hbg
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thehamster
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 03:00 am
Anglomania : A European Love Affair

Hey, hamburger, that book title does sound interesting. I may think about picking up a copy when I get to Canada in a couple of weeks.
IMO that whole colonial Europe thing is pretty interesting. I mean not that I admired any of the actions of those psychos who thought about themselves as being sent by god.
But I think all those relations and links between the rulers back then do yield some interesting stories and historical things you usually don't get to know in history class.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 06:16 am
I just had a call from God: did anyone want me?


hehehehe
okbye

McT
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thehamster
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:59 am
McTag wrote:
I just had a call from God: did anyone want me?


hehehehe
okbye

McT

Question
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 08:19 am
Re: Tirpitz, the Building of Battleships and WWI
thehamster wrote:
Sorry Walter, I don't wanna sound fussy, but would you like to edit your post to make the 3rd Emperor of the German Reich be more like "Wilhelm II"?

English-speaking historians typically translate common foreign names into English equivalents: thus, e.g., le roi Henri quatre of France is better known as King Henry IV. Likewise, English-language histories of the German empire will just as frequently refer to the last Hohenzollern monarch as "Emperor William" as they will refer to him as "Kaiser Wilhelm."

thehamster wrote:
Whooops my bad...Wilhelm I was the 1st and Wilhelm II the 2nd Emperor of Germany, right?
Then the website the link above points to must be a little flawed.

The website is correct: Wilhelm II was the third emperor of Germany. His father, Friedrich (Frederick) III was emperor for a brief period in 1888 (March to June), before dying of throat cancer.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2004 07:18 pm
hamster : ANGLOMANIA is a good read(got the book from the public library). i sort of read it starting at the back and then started hopping around since the chapters are pretty well independent of each other - the author anchors the book on his german-jewish great-grandparents who went to england to so that their children could become truly english gentlemen and ladies - but they had a tough time to shed their germen background completely. i sure can understand their struggle. hbg
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