4
   

What, exactly, is the rationale for establishing "sanctuary cities?"

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 08:27 pm
@maxdancona,
Simple: It's wrong on the one hand and right on the other.

It's not name calling

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 09:12 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Come on Finn, Is there anyone on your side that can hold an intelligent discussion rather than the partisan yelling points that this thread has turned into (and you will not that I haven't in partisan yelling points).

This debate, with exactly the same points, has been raging for more than 20 years. If it was as simple as people on this thread, it would have already been solved.

The key word in the title of this thread is "rationale". Apparently what people really want is a target.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 09:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Simple: It's wrong on the one hand and right on the other.

It's not name calling




Great Finn! You have finally found something that both sides can agree about.

It is really nice for you to find the common ground.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 02:04 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Sanctuary laws are example of that, Finn.

I didn't think you would get dragged into this silly redundant, thread with more partisan points.


Let me just haul off and take a wild-ass guess, eh, Max? I bet you agree 100% with this sentiment, eh?:

Hightor wrote:
I don't care...how patriotic they are
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 02:18 am
A cop caught me in a closed drug store at about 3:00 A.M. one time, and said: "You're under arrest, boy, you're coming with me."

I said: "Hold on a second. Let me ask you something: Do you eat a lot of cheese?"

The pig said: "Hell, yeah! I love cheese."

I knew then that I could get out of this clean, so I said:

"Well, looky here. I grant you that I clean broke the law when I busted into this here joint, but I'm here now, caincha see? It just wouldn't be no fair to throw me out now."

He studied on that a spell, then said: "Yeah, I see your point. I'll leave you be, but dont go stealin nuthin while you're in here, OK?"

I said: "Sure, I wouldn't NEVER do nuthin like that."

Then the chump left.

Whatta haul!

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 08:36 am
@layman,
I assume you are a grown man, why did this hypothetical cop call you "boy"? I have never had a cop calle anything other than "sir".
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 08:38 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I assume you are a grown man, why did this hypothetical cop call you "boy"? I have never had a cop calle anything other than "sir".


I guess you aint had many run-ins with cops, then, eh, Max? Or maybe you look like you're rich and might have some bribe money on hand, eh?
camlok
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 08:50 am
@layman,
If you didn't write so many fables, layman, people might believe you on occasion.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 08:56 am
@layman,
I have white privilege. It is quite noticable when dealing with the occasional encounter with a police officer.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 10:21 am
@camlok,
camlok wrote:

If you didn't write so many fables, layman, people might believe you on occasion.


I don't expect anyone to "believe" the cheese-eater's "logic," but that seems to be part of it, somehow. They've already broken in, so just leave them be. Of course, bein as it's that way, I will invite my homeys to bust in with me next time and we can all stay until we get all we can carry, ya know?

Better yet, when the owner comes in the next day, we'll throw his sorry ass out and tell him it's our joint now. Then we can sell all his **** at a fire sale and get some cold cash!
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:00 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am supposed to respond to your silly video cherry picked from some anti-immigrant website with a video of some white guy yelling about Mexicans and giving a Nazi salute.


You can stick your head in the sand and deduce "reality" from your ideological tenets all you want, Max, but that won't tell you nuthin about what happening in the streets. And, of course, you don't want to know that. It might call your dogma into question. We wouldn't want that, now, would we?

Whether you want to believe it or not, anti-american sentiment among Mexicans is not some rare phenomenon. Even the far left wing Slate acknowledges that:

Slate wrote:
The Return of Gringophobia--There’s a long tradition of anti-Americanism in Mexican politics. It’s making a comeback..

When Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto opened gasoline prices to market forces this January,...La Jornada, the country’s leading left-wing daily, reported on the protests one day by splashing its front page with a woman setting fire to Old Glory. The message: The gas hike is the fault of the gringos.

It makes sense in the context of what I call gringophobia, a strain of Mexican nationalism—at times muted, at other times pronounced—that views the United States and its citizens as objects of fear, disdain, and blame for the country’s ills.

Andrés Manuel López Obrador, is a former mayor of Mexico City and a nationalist-populist stalwart of the left, tagged by the late academic George Grayson as a Mexican messiah. Known to disciples, detractors, and neutrals alike by his initials, AMLO, López Obrador made his first bid for president in 2006 and lost by less than 1 percentage point. Part of his allure owed to his opposition to U.S. influence.

AMLO’s anti-Americanism is not new. Time and again in Mexican history, gringophobia has been utilized for political gain. After 1910, when Mexico was plunged into a decade-long revolution that produced what was arguably the world’s first socialist constitution. It was now the left, much more than the right, that waved the banner of national sovereignty. And gringophobia evolved too, entering popular culture on a massive scale.

Folk ballads known as corridos began to mock Americans for their lack of manliness, their greed and cruelty, and their contempt for Mexican workers. One balladeer opined: “The gringo is very despicable, and our eternal enemy.

Some of the new sentiment was fostered by the state. School textbooks fingered U.S. greed as a cause of the Mexican–American War. Perennially short of cash, the state had limited options, but one thing it could easily do—to satisfy the constitution’s radical promises and to strengthen its tenuous hold—was to seize U.S. assets.

Per one estimate, foreigners—mostly Americans—had come to own 27 percent of Mexico’s surface area by 1910. Expropriations became the order of the day, the land typically redistributed among the peasant and rancher majority. And the policy reached a populist climax in 1938, with the seizure of the U.S.– and U.K.–owned oil companies. The president who made that jackpot-hitting call, Lázaro Cárdenas, remains the most popular figure in 20th-century Mexican history.

Cárdenas could pull off the oil seizure in great part thanks to Washington. Under Franklin Roosevelt, the United States had nurtured a Latin American Good Neighbor policy...Mexico entered World War II on the side of the Allies, despite popular misgivings, even incomprehension. In some small towns, radio listeners greeted the declaration of war with: “Viva México! Death to the Gringos!”

Afterward, good neighborly harmony came to be relegated in favor of Cold War anti-communism. Modern Mexico’s first civilian president, Miguel Alemán, was happy to sing the new tune.

. Matters came to a head in 1959, when Fidel Castro’s rebels rode into Havana and started imposing a state-directed economy. Leftists hailed the Cuban model as a reminder of abandoned ideals. Growing U.S. hostility to Castro only bolstered their case.

The most influential left-wing organ of the day, Política, was more specifically gringophobic... it said: “The greatest devil is blond.”... It contributed to an ever-more-shrill rhetorical struggle, echoed in the streets with student marches; chants of “Cuba sí, Yanquis no!”; and occasional killings. The battle polarized Mexico for years and inexorably arrived at a bloody outcome in October 1968.

Two key factors keep gringophobia in play. First, believing the worst of the United States remains an article of faith within some sectors of society, such as many faculty in the social sciences at the big public universities, along with media such as La Jornada and the popular, combative newsweekly Proceso.

Second, national opinion remains subject to huge mood swings. In 2003, following Bush’s invasion of Iraq, pollsters Latinobarómetro found that just 41 percent of Mexicans had a positive view of the United States, while 58 percent held a negative view.... Latinobarómetro last year found that 94 percent disliked Trump. With Trump in the Oval Office, Mexico may never have been as fertile a field for politicized gringophobia as it is today.

So far this year, López Obrador has been somewhat muted in his nationalism. California is “a refuge and blessing for immigrants,” he told a Los Angeles crowd. “Long live California!”


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2017/05/what_the_history_of_mexican_anti_americanism_can_tell_us_about_the_trump.html

That aint "muted nationalism," eh? It's the recognition that California will soon be part of Mexico again.

Anyone who hates Trump is a friend of leftists. They would just as soon the whole U.S. government be turned over to Mexico as see Trump in office, I betcha.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:42 pm
@layman,
Yawn.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:50 pm
@layman,
Quote:
That aint "muted nationalism," eh? It's the recognition that California will soon be part of Mexico again.


It may be 20, 30, 40, or even 50 years down the road, but this outcome is inevitable. California wants to secede from the union as it stands right now. Just wait until the State is overwhelmingly chicano, and there is a Mexican president of the U. S.

Demands that California (and other southwestern states) annex itself to Mexico will become incessant, and they will have the full support of the overwhelming majority of its populace. Negotiations by and between Mexico, California, and the U.S. will ensue. The president (with the ratification of the largely hispanic congress) will enter into a treaty to cede part of the U.S. back to Mexico, with the promise that the U.S. will get favorable trading terms with them and that no other such treaties will be demanded in the future.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:56 pm
@layman,
[img]...and there is a Mexican president of the U.S. [/img]

Unless the law is changed, this cannot happen. A person needs to be born an American in order to attain the rank of President
layman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:58 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Yawn.

You're quite proud of the fact that you are, and will stay, asleep, aincha, Max?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:00 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

[img]...and there is a Mexican president of the U.S. [/img]

Unless the law is changed, this cannot happen. A person needs to be born an American in order to attain the rank of President


He needs to be "born in the U.S." like every other anchor baby, sure. That don't make him "American." It just makes him a U.S. citizen.

You don't come out of the womb with either pro- or anti- U.S. fanaticism. But a lifetime of indoctrination by those who most influence you can change that, either way.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:22 pm
@layman,
Apparently for some, Mexicans are the new Jews.
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:45 pm
Huffpo, and the Mexicans who write for them know, eh, Max. You don't:

Huffpo, perhaps the cheesiest of them all, wrote:
Mexicans Love to Hate Americans

Mexican leftists ‘love to love’ Fidel Castro even if more than 50 years have gone by after his “revolution.” In my opinion this weird fanaticism goes back to the fact that Mexicans love to say that “they hate Americans” ever since Santana lost that huge chunk of our land. Any [Mexican] president that manages to make his US hatred — part of his flag — is quite admired down in Mexico.

However, such anti-gringo sentiment is very well disguised...You will find them standing in long lines at Disneyland and buying outrageously expensive princess costumes on their way out. But it is during sobremesa conversations when it’s very common to hear phrases like “pinches gringos, capitalists, oh how much I hate them.”

And me?...Every time I come to Mexico to visit my friends and family I fully embrace my country of origin. But when people ask me, “How are things in the US? How’s the economy? How’s life up there?” — and before allowing me to answer they follow their questions with, “That Obama has done a lousy job” — I simply just snap. The other day someone dared to say, “Romney is winning this election for sure” which really infuriated me.

If there’s one thing I truly dislike about the United States it is the Republicans and I also consider myself one of the biggest Obama fans (even though I still can’t vote).

The Republican Party seems to be of a bunch of misogynistic men and delusional women like Sarah Palin, who seem to have no regard for the poor, for women, for Hispanics, for African Americans or for Muslims. They’re against gays and lesbians, they’re against environmentalists, they’re against unions and many of them are absolutely intolerant.

Romney’s politics are a frontal war with many of the things I hold important: ...he is pushing for the self-deportation solution and he opposes amnesty for undocumented immigrants a clear example is his posture on the DREAM Act which he has publicly qualified as a “handout”, so how on earth would we want him to govern?

Mexico is a land of contradictions but I love it and I will continue to defend the “good gringos” in my hometown - especially Obama. And if by any chance Romney becomes president I am sure that I won’t hear the end of it — and I’ll take it — but I will still be wearing my Obama-Biden t-shirt (while crying).


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sofia-aguilar/-i-only-hate-republicans_b_1827569.html

This gal seems to concede that they are a few "good gringos," but her homeys aint havin none of it, eh? Being a lefty, hating republicans, hating America--they all always run hand in hand, ya know?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:48 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Apparently for some, Mexicans are the new Jews.


I don't think so. Homey don't play dat. Jews never expressed extreme hatred for the U. S., that I know of. On the contrary, they always loved it.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:55 pm
@maxdancona,
Pretty idiotic max
 

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