4
   

What, exactly, is the rationale for establishing "sanctuary cities?"

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 01:34 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Brandon,

If the local police enforce immigration laws in my city they get fired. If the police officials don't fire them, than the Citi government will fire them. If the city government doesn't fire them... Then they get voted out.

The federal government has nothing to do with this. There was an attempt for a small group of anti-immigrant hardliners to take over city government. They lost resoundingly.

Thanks. I have been following the history in the news. Since you said no more about it, neither will I, at least to you.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 05:14 am
@Sturgis,
Quote:
Traceable ancestry shows a combination of Italian, Mexican and Russian.

Sorry, Sturgis, I should have used the sarcasm tag — I was poking fun at the USAmerican tendency to obsess over ancestry.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 09:13 am
@layman,
For many decades, close to a century, Southern states were said to still be fighting the civil war. There's was almost universal hatred and condemnation of "Yankees" in the deep south, well into, and beyond, the 1950's. They were still smarting from their defeat, and resentful about it.

Most Mexicans still feel the same way about their loss of the Mexican/American war, just a few years before the American civil war. They're kinda like Trump-haters. They just can't accept their defeat, and are determined to sabotage their enemy's victory in any way possible, even if their actions cause immense damage to the country as a whole.

Issuing a visa to a Mexican does not make them a U.S. citizen. They are still Mexicans, and walking across the U.S. Border does not magically transform them into gringo-lovers.

In case anyone missed it the first time:



I hate this ******* country!
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 09:42 am
@layman,
Notice that this girl claims she was born here. Did that make her "love" America? Not when she was taught to hate it by her peers, apparently. 74% of all hispanics in California speak Spanish at home. They don't want to abandon their language, they want to make it the "official" language, that's all. America is committing "genocide" against brown people. What ethnic group in the world would find that worthy of love, if their tribe is the victim of it?

I can understand why many Mexicans hate America, justified or not. What amazes me is how many American citizens agree with their claims and are quite willing to subsidize their traitorous sentiments. Not long ago the NYT ran a piece saying that the Mexicans had legitimate claims to title to 7 Southwestern states, but that they might be willing to "sell" those claims to the U.S. in return for the granting of total amnesty and citizenship to all Mexican cities in the country.

"Traitorous" was not the right word to use there. They are not "traitors;" they are very loyal to their country (Mexico) and are merely attempting to sabotage and resist the enemy's attempt to exterminate them by genocide. The NYT might be "traitorous" in their subversive support of the enemy, but you can't say that about the Mexicans themselves.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 01:11 pm
@layman,
This is so stupid. It's the same stupid partisan yelling points that have been on the internet for 20 years. I am supposed to respond to your silly video cherry picked from some anti-immigrant website with a video of some white guy yelling about Mexicans and giving a Nazi salute. Then you say "illegal" and I say "bigot".

I have gotten bored of this game. When the title of this thread said "rationale" I thought maybe it meant a different type of discussion. Silly me.

I am bored.
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 01:20 pm
@maxdancona,
Fine, Max, suit yourself. The topic is a serious one, concerning willful law-breaking, with serious consequences, and those who advocate it.

If the only thing you care to do in a thread is emote and shout out your "feelings," that's certainly your privilege.

Like I said at the very beginning, I don't even think this is a rational issue for most. Their "position" on the topic is seldom the result of rational thinking, it is simply a product of self-interest. That's certainly the explanation for the position taken by all the Mexican citizens who are illegally in this country.

Even so, they try, to their credit, to advance a rationale for their hatred and refusal to assimilate, along these lines:

1. Gringos stole our land
2. Stealing is wrong
3. Therefore the right thing to do is give us our land back, and haul your sorry ass plumb the **** out, unless we decide to give you permission to stay.

If you unconditionally accept those premises, then I guess the conclusion more or less logically follows, eh?

But, of course, their suggestion that you can't stay without their permission undercuts the claim that there should be open borders with no restrictions on who comes and goes.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 02:02 pm
Go figure, eh?

Quote:
How Mexico Treats Illegal Aliens--Their practices are discriminatory, corrupt, and abusive.

Mexican president Felipe Calderón has accused Arizona of opening the door “to intolerance, hate, discrimination, and abuse in law enforcement.”

While open-borders activists decry the new enforcement measures signed into law in “Nazi-zona” last week, they remain deaf, dumb, or willfully blind to the unapologetically restrictionist policies of our neighbors to the south.

The Arizona law bans sanctuary cities that refuse to enforce immigration laws, stiffens penalties against illegal-alien day laborers and their employers, makes it a misdemeanor for immigrants to fail to complete and carry an alien-registration document, and allows the police to arrest immigrants unable to show documents proving they are in the U.S. legally.

If those rules constitute the racist, fascist, xenophobic, inhumane regime that the National Council of La Raza, Al Sharpton, Catholic bishops, and their grievance-mongering followers claim, then what about these regulations and restrictions imposed on foreigners?

The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset “the equilibrium of the national demographics.” How’s that for racial and ethnic profiling?

If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam, and prove they can provide their own health care.

Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal-alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/229641/how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens-michelle-malkin

There's plenty more there, but I think that's enough to give you the gist of the contrast. I would imagine that the vast majority of Mexican citizens in this country fully support the existence and enforcement of Mexico's immigration laws. They aint stupid. Just selfish and hypocritical, that's all.

layman
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 02:12 pm
@layman,
Well, here's a little more, eh?

Quote:
Open-borders protesters marched freely at the Capitol building in Arizona, comparing Republican governor Jan Brewer to Hitler, waving Mexican flags, advocating that demonstrators “smash the state,” and holding signs that proclaimed “No human is illegal” and “We have rights.”

But under the Mexican constitution, such political speech by foreigners is banned. Noncitizens cannot “in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” In fact, a plethora of Mexican statutes enacted by its congress limit the participation of foreign nationals and companies in everything from investment, education, mining, and civil aviation to electric energy and firearms. Foreigners have severely limited (if any) private-property and employment rights.

As for abuse, the Mexican government is notorious for its abuse of Central American illegal aliens who attempt to violate Mexico’s southern border. The Red Cross has protested rampant Mexican police corruption, intimidation, and bribery schemes targeting illegal aliens there for years. Mexico didn’t respond by granting mass amnesty to illegal aliens, as it is demanding that we do. It clamped down on its borders even further.

Here’s the proper rejoinder to all the hysterical demagogues in Mexico (and their sympathizers here on American soil) now calling for boycotts and invoking Jim Crow laws, apartheid, and the Holocaust because Arizona has taken its sovereignty into its own hands: Hipócritas.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 03:11 pm
@layman,
I wish that the video went on for another five minutes after the cops showed up so that we could see what happens to someone when they steal another person's property.

In 2006 I debated the issue of illegal immigration. I provided the poster debating me with the immigration statistics found here: http://proliberty.com/observer//20060511.htm
layman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 03:22 pm
@Glennn,
I haven't read it all yet, but this looks like a good site. I like the introductory quote:

In 1907, Theodore Roosevelt wrote:
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming, in every facet, an American and nothing but an American...

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American People.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 03:28 pm
@layman,
And then there's these statistics from the FBI/INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service): http://proliberty.com/observer/20060802.htm
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 03:36 pm
@Glennn,
Wow, this is amazing. I haven't seen these stats, and they're hard to believe, but they appear to be coming from a legitimate Idaho newspaper which is itself only citing the L.A. Times:

Quote:
Immigration stats from The LA Times:

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A.County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million Speak Spanish (10 million people in L.A.County).

Additional figures:

1. Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops but 29% are on welfare.

~http://www.cis.org

2. Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration.

3. The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University].

4. The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE.

5. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.


And that's all from 11-12 years ago. The birth rate numbers are especially staggering. That's an exponential kinda thing which expands on itself quite rapidly.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 03:41 pm
@layman,
The statistics from the first link I put up was reported from the LA Times. Of course, that was from 2006. But still . . .
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 04:30 pm
@layman,
Too bad for Teddy Roosevelt that the United States has no official language.


English is however the official language in several states, including Nebraska, California and New Hampshire.

0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 07:24 pm
Showing you have a heart. And a brain to match.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 08:14 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
That is how democracy works.


Not really.

Democracy works through people changing laws they don't support, not flaunting them.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 08:20 pm
@layman,
At one level it is due to the hope by the Democrat party that all of these illegal immigrants will eventually become voting citizens. This is a plain and simple fact.

At another level, it is due to the present cult of the victim that is so pervasive among liberals in this country. It's virtue signaling, pure and simple.

At another level, it is willful ignorance by members of a party that historically has represented the working class and the impoverished in this nation. Witness the gymnastics they will go through to try and argue that a flood of illegals willing to work for less than minimum wage are having no impact whatsoever on their constituency.



maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 08:20 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Sanctuary laws are example of that, Finn.

I didn't think you would get dragged into this silly redundant, thread with more partisan points.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 08:22 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
At another level, it is due to the present cult of the victim that is so pervasive among liberals in this country. It's virtue signaling, pure and simple.


How is this different than liberals saying that conservatives are "anti-immigrant" because they are "racist"?

This continued name calling is pathetic on both sides.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jan, 2018 08:25 pm
@maxdancona,
But according to most Dems I see on TV, Sanctuary Cities don't exist.

That's certainly the Dem talking point on the issue, but you seem to be contradicting it.

Every single law on the books can create a situation where personal feelings lead to a desire to thwart it. That's not how a nation of laws works.

I've no doubt what-so-ever that there are laws you want to see enforced without consideration of personal feelings. You don't get to pick and choose.
 

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