What, exactly, is the rationale for establishing "sanctuary cities?"

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

There are hundreds of thousands of Americans living illegally in Mexico. I don't think any of them have been deported. Mexico knows that deporting Americans isn't in its interest... and they aren't stupid.

Americans aint stupid neither, although it's rare for a self-hating cheese-eater to ever admit that.

Mexico, for good reasons, WANTS more Americans. The majority who are there are self-sufficient, law-respecting retirees who bring a lot of American dollars with them. They won't be trying to take a citizen's job from them, and are far more likely to employ citizens than to seek employment. The kind any country would want.

The illegals who come here are generally impoverished and are seeking, perhaps first and foremost, free food, free housing, free medical attention, free educations, etc. To supplement their freebies, they will work cheap, and take away a job an American in need might have had. Many of them are young criminals or criminal wannabe who are looking to hook up with a gang and evade the Mexican authorities who are looking for their ass. The kind every country wouldn't want.

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@Brandon9000,

Quote:

The only possible exception would be people who had no say in the violation, such as people who were brought in as children.

The DACA plan the democrats are shutting down the government over INSISTS that the parents of all these kids be granted amnesty too, so that argument seems to just be a bait and switch tactic by them.

Let's say tomorrow a mexican couple with 8 minor kids bust in. None of the kids made that decision, right? So what do we do? Send the parents back, but keep all their kids and put them in orphanages?

No, not if you listen to them. They ALL must be allowed to stay. The kids must be allowed to stay because it wasn't their choice to come in. The law-breaking parents must now be able to stay because they illegally brought their kids with them and you can't "split up families." It's all really just a transparent cover for an avidly "open borders" policy.

Many crimes require an intent to commit the crime. It's not murder if you accidentally kill someone (it may be some other crime). But this isn't about crime. It's about enforcing our immigration law. An "intent" to illegally enter is not required to justify deportation.

If a person in Mexico was drugged-up, then passed out, and then his homeys threw him in the truck with them and drove into San Diego, should that heroin addict be allowed to stay just because he didn't enter knowingly and willingly?

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@maxdancona,

Cite?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

You can just google "Americans illegally in Mexico". There are not only statistics, but first person accounts of Americans breaking Mexican immigration law.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You can just google "Americans illegally in Mexico". There are not only statistics, but first person accounts of Americans breaking Mexican immigration law.

Mexicans can be downright brutal in enforcing their immigration law, but if, and when (which is rarely) it is enforced against harmless (but "wealthy") American retirees, it is just used an yet another of extracting money from them. They might be assessed with a $250 fine (at worst) when "caught."

Your indirect attempt to claim that one "illegal" is just the same as any other is specious and sophistic.

The Mexicans are simply adhering to a de facto "merit" immigration policy, as we should be.

1 Reply

@layman,

I think it is funny to see Layman defending "illegals" living in Mexico. He even just put the word "illegal" in quotes (something that seems to drive him crazy when other people do so).

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I think it is funny to see Layman defending "illegals" living in Mexico. He even just put the word "illegal" in quotes (something that seems to drive him crazy when other people do so).

I didn't defend anybody, just stated the facts. That said, I guess you could say I kinda "defend" speeders who are going 70 mph in a 65 mph zone if I acknowledge that it really aint no thang.

Those weren't "scare quotes." I put that particular word in quotes because it is the word you are attempting to fallaciously equivocate about, that's all.

I note that, as always, you refuse to address the substance of my comments, eh, Max?

1 Reply

@layman,

layman wrote:

I note that, as always, you refuse to address the substance of my comments, eh, Max?

I might be going a little harsh on you, Max, since I didn't acknowledge your general inability to even recognize what the "substance" is. Here, let me spell it out for you a little. Part of what I was saying was this:

Your implicit argument, that you hope others will fall for, is along these lines:

All speeders should be treated equally! It is hypocritical to do otherwise! Justice DEMANDS equal treatment for equal things!!

Problem is, all "speeders" aint equal, even if we use the same word to describe (or categorize) them. Your implicit argument is hollow and misleading.

Nobody would accept the proposition that a "speeder" who is going 145 in a 20 mph school zone, should be treated exactly the same as a "speeder" who is going 70 mph in a 65 mph zone.

In logic, this kinda thing is called "the fallacy of equivocation."

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@maxdancona,

I wonder how many of those Americans march in the streets of Mexico and demand that Mexico give them the same rights a Mexican citizens. How many of those illegal Americans in Mexico are on the public dole down there? Do you think Mexico is spending millions educating, feeding and caring for the children of Illegal Immigrant Americans in Mexico? Are they demanding that they be made into Mexican citizens?

Please answer honestly.

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@maxdancona,

You obviously did why the resistance to provide the cite?

In any case, comparing well less than a million illegal American immigrants to anywhere between 11 and 15 million illegal Mexican immigrants is ridiculous.

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@Baldimo,

You guys are funny. So illegal immigration is OK if

- the "illegal" immigrants don't march.
- the "illegal" immigrants don't use public welfare
- the "illegal" immigrants are a benefit to the economy.
- the "illegal" immigrants don't demand to become citizens.

Is that what we are saying now? (There may be some "illegal" immigrants in the US who meet these criteria).

(here you go Finn - http://bfy.tw/GKbU )

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@maxdancona,

Pretty cool

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

You guys are funny. So illegal immigration is OK if

- the "illegal" immigrants don't march.
- the "illegal" immigrants don't use public welfare
- the "illegal" immigrants are a benefit to the economy.
- the "illegal" immigrants don't demand to become citizens.

Do illegal Americans in Mexico do these things? It's a simple question that I'm going to guess is a no. Illegal Americans in Mexico do no do or get any of those things.

Quote:

Is that what we are saying now? (There may be some "illegal" immigrants in the US who meet these criteria).

Those aren't criteria, those are ways in which you either respect or disrespect the country you illegally enter. Demanding the same rights as citizens when you are an illegal immigrant, is disrespect for the system.

Do illegal Americans in Mexico demand the same rights as Mexican citizens? If you know anything at all about Mexico, then you know the answer to this question, but you won't answer it, just like you didn't answer with it with this post.

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@maxdancona,

Still, comparing the two groups in terms of how each nation responds to them is rather absurd. No one needs to go through a torturous economic analysis to show how American retirees with steady incomes benefit the Mexican economy. I doubt too many Gringos illegally cross the border to avail themselves of the Mexican Social Safety Net, and should they try, my sense is they would find themselves in a Mexican jail.

However...I have no more sympathy for Americans violating the immigration laws of Mexico than I do Mexicans who violate ours.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

The economic benefit of "illegal immigrants" in the US was made clear in several states, including Georgia and Arizona that suffered economic damage when then cracked down on them. Georgia farms lost millions of dollars because they couldn't find the workers and crops rotted. But I don't think that is important.

Let's be honest about the real debate here... The real issue is whether the US has a homogeneous culture dominated by European Protestant influences, or whether the US is a multi-cultural democracy.

That is the real philosophical divide. The rest is just politics.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

However...I have no more sympathy for Americans violating the immigration laws of Mexico than I do Mexicans who violate ours.

Yeah, I don't have "sympathy" for speeders who violate the law and are willing to eat a speeding ticket if they get caught either. But I don't compare them to rapists, drug dealers, gang bangers, and other generally "bad hombres," either.

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@maxdancona,

You're flat out wrong.

The situation would be the same if the millions upon millions of illegal immigrants were lily white men and women from Croatia or Latvia.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Let's be honest about the real debate here... The real issue is whether the US has a homogeneous culture dominated by European Protestant influences, or whether the US is a multi-cultural democracy.

That is the real philosophical divide. The rest is just politics.

Naw, but that aint to say that nobody is concerned about the country being overun by agents of foreign governments whose goal is to "conquer" a large portion of U.S. territory and use it to establish a new nation, eh?

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

Let's be honest about the real debate here... The real issue is whether the US has a homogeneous culture dominated by European Protestant influences, or whether the US is a multi-cultural democracy.

This isn't the real debate about illegal immigration, it's your fake debate about diversity, which has nothing to do with legal immigration.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You're flat out wrong.

The situation would be the same if the millions upon millions of illegal immigrants were lily white men and women from Croatia or Latvia.

Yeah, the only difference might be that they could perhaps be less likely to hate the USA, but they'd still have to go if they entered illegally, even if they loved the USA.

1 Reply

What, exactly, is the rationale for establishing "sanctuary cities?"

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