Dean to seek chairmanship of Democrats

You don't have to pull up references. I agree that they were 'the most' modern ME country. Its just their modernity doesn't inhabit (IMO) the same universe as what we consider modern.

I just think that power to the people will transform their minds.

But, thanks for the dialogue.

<smiles at Freeduck>

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Israel is pretty modern by existing standards...

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LOL!!! Wasn't including them--though, you're right.

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Yeah, I wouldn't quite call them first world or anything, especially not after the sanctions took effect. But definitely not third world either.

Thanks for the conversation, Lash. That was fun.

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Dean is a loser. He couldn't defeat even KERRY. Does anybody think of him as a presidential candidate for 2008? Not to mention his political and moral principles - well described by Lash - , which clearly place him as a firebrand liberal. Given the fact that traditional liberal policies are being voted out once and again since 2000, the Democratic Party will only be saved from collapse if leadership belongs to moderate leaders. Politicians able to please a majority of voters worried both by neoconservative imperial aims and moral issues such as abortion. Politicians who don't hesitate to cut taxes in order to promote individual responsibility and liberty.

I am thinking of Evan Bayh or Mark Warner, two good options for the 2008 ticket. Let's forget all that liberal stuff. Admit that America is now a conservative country- where the majority of people who voted for Kerry were in fact voting against Bush's overzealous freedom dream, not his economic policy.

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Thomas Hayden.

Bayh or Warner are examples of what Sen Feingold(a good candidiate for '08 IMHO) calls "GOP-Lite".

I wonder if many in the GOP are afraid of this new "Grassroots" that has put Dean and perhaps this "Grassroots" into a position of power. As well they should be IMHO.

I may post comments on the Dean's DNC after I read the article in The Nation and piece what I'm thinking together.

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The entire dynamics of the '08 elections will be different because George Bush will not be running. I think that the Democrat 'grassroots' was only rallied by hatred of Bush. Most of the moonbats will have left for Canada by 08...hehehe...j/k. Also, the Democrats had counted a *LOT * on the younger college student demographics and they never bothered to show up at the polls.

The grassroots theory isn't a very good one and will be less so in '08 IMO. Laughing

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Thomas Hayden wrote:

Dean is a loser. He couldn't defeat even KERRY. Does anybody think of him as a presidential candidate for 2008? Not to mention his political and moral principles - well described by Lash - , which clearly place him as a firebrand liberal. Given the fact that traditional liberal policies are being voted out once and again since 2000, the Democratic Party will only be saved from collapse if leadership belongs to moderate leaders. Politicians able to please a majority of voters worried both by neoconservative imperial aims and moral issues such as abortion. Politicians who don't hesitate to cut taxes in order to promote individual responsibility and liberty.

I am thinking of Evan Bayh or Mark Warner, two good options for the 2008 ticket. Let's forget all that liberal stuff. Admit that America is now a conservative country- where the majority of people who voted for Kerry were in fact voting against Bush's overzealous freedom dream, not his economic policy.

No, nobody's thinking of Dean as a nominee for '08 - he pretty much closed the door on that when he got himself chosen as the DNC Chair - he's going to be busy trying to raise money and instigate the party to action.

Say what you want about him, loser or whatever, but he was the ONLY one besides Kucinich with the stones to say ANYTHING against bush's war and foreign policies - everyone else got on board with that later. He was the ONLY one with the character to state plainly where he stood regardless of the political winds, and he was the one who resuscitated the Democratic party with grassroots activism when it needed it the most. Some may want to remember him as the media-painted picture of an ultraliberal screamer, but any thinking person will credit him for the real impact he had.

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Very true, snood. I think they put the attack dogs on him early on because they could see that he had appeal across party lines and they couldn't let him get his message out. His record does not indicate an extreme liberal bent.

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Not at all - that's a myth created from wholecloth by those trying to slap an easy perjorative label on him. He was fiscally conservative and famous for balancing budgets. Whenever someone has both liberal and conservative views depending on what the subject is (which is the case for most reasonable people), some idiot is always trying to slap a label on his forehead and herd him into an easy-to-slander group.

I predict they'll do that to Obama as soon as his common sense starts making an impact.

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That should be interesting. Obama is squeaky clean so they will have a hard go bringing him down without looking like sleaze artists. I predict it will be a previously non-existent private unaffiliated group that will do the smearing.

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FreeDuck wrote:

That should be interesting. Obama is squeaky clean so they will have a hard go bringing him down without looking like sleaze artists. I predict it will be a previously non-existent private unaffiliated group that will do the smearing.

Hearing Bush accused of cavorting with Satan in Hell and eating babies' live hearts makes it very clear that no character, however good, can withstand an unending stream of accusations, however false. Sooner or later the average man in the street concludes that the person cannot be entirely innocent.

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Whatever happens in that regard, let's remember that it all started with Ted Kennedy calling him "Osama" a while back.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Whatever happens in that regard, let's remember that it all started with Ted Kennedy calling him "Osama" a while back.

See, they're already working on ways to blame it on Democrats.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Hearing Bush accused of cavorting with Satan in Hell and eating babies' live hearts makes it very clear that no character, however good, can withstand an unending stream of accusations, however false. Sooner or later the average man in the street concludes that the person cannot be entirely innocent.

Wow! Bush was accused of cavorting with Satan and sill managed to pull the Christian vote? That is some political savvy.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Hearing Bush accused of cavorting with Satan in Hell and eating babies' live hearts makes it very clear that no character, however good, can withstand an unending stream of accusations, however false. Sooner or later the average man in the street concludes that the person cannot be entirely innocent.

Wow! Bush was accused of cavorting with Satan and sill managed to pull the Christian vote? That is some political savvy.

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Brand X wrote:

Also, the Democrats had counted a *LOT * on the younger college student demographics and they never bothered to show up at the polls.

Well I dunno about college students, specifically, but the youth vote did turn out for Kerry. Turnout among the 18-19 demographic went up from 42% in 2000 to 52% in 2004. That made the youth turnout higher this time than in either 2000, 1996 or 1992, even if the proportion the youths made up of the overall electorate remained 17%, because of how turnout increased by the same ratio among other age groups. So, they turned out more than in 15 years, plus, they voted more often for the Dems. Whereas in 2000, Bush actually lost the youth vote by just two percent (G48, B46), he lost it this time by nine percent (K54, B45).

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Obama tried cocaine and says so in his book (forget the title, something about his father.) I worry that one little thing is going to torpedo his chances, which would be such a shame.

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sozobe wrote:

Obama tried cocaine and says so in his book (forget the title, something about his father.) I worry that one little thing is going to torpedo his chances, which would be such a shame.

I think it would have been made an issue in this past race, then. It wasn't and I think in large part it's due to his making it known in his book.

If he succeeds or fails, it will most likely be on the issues. I hope he ignores the advice of the DNC, though, and continues his honesty and frankness with the public.

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And you have some link to the DNC advising him to be dishonest and secretive?

It was an issue in the past race, that's how I found out about it.

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Dean to seek chairmanship of Democrats

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