Evolutionry/religious nonsense

@vikorr,

Quote: ‘As I haven't actually given my interpretation of fossils, or intelligent design, how can you know it?’
Yes, u have made reference to embracing evolution and ‘fossils being fact’

Quote:’Again, just like your claim that I support ‘evil deeds.’
You say yourself that you support the mass killing of children for name calling.’

I don’t support abortion, at any stage, never mind your terrible interpretation of 2 Kings 2:23
Here, (Again)
https://bible.org/seriespage/4-elisha-and-two-bears-2-kings-223-25
This is the proper interpretation of 2 Kings 2:23, which I support.
Seems like u r the guilty one of not questioning enough😉
But again, it seems you are conjuring up ideas (lies/misinformation) to self deceive yourself.

There is no deceit like self deceit!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:’Scientists tell us that humans evolved from primates.’
Some do. Some don’t.
To be more specific, evolutionists who embrace evolutionism as part of their worldview tell us this....with zero hard evidence of course Wink see your next quote below i.e.

Quote:’Life can be formed from inanimate objects; it has to do with acidity and proteins.’
See, only evolution ‘scientists’ and tell us(preach)this, not hard facts. (And it’s followers.)

Quote:’I think and believe that if there is a "god," a person who lives with ethics and good will is all that is needed to be judged.’

BINGO!
What is ‘good?’ How do we know how to live so that if we are judged, we can be ‘good enough?’

If the God of Israel is the true God *wink wink* then he has revealed to humanity that NONE of us, not One are good enough.
If and when we stand judgment, we would all Perish under the Law. (Can’t swim your way through judgement day)

Romans 3:23 ‘for ALL have sinned...’(broken the law)
https://biblehub.com/romans/3-23.htm

What happens when u break the law? Jail time! (Hell is a familiar English word used for eternal separation from God, and a heavenly society)

What then is the Good News?! That someone has paid your bail out of Jail!
Guess who?! Wink

U see? Again, without Gods revelation to mankind, we would be eternally lost!

***We could not know right from wrong(morality truths) or Creation truths like the age of the earth, or Why we are here, or whereto afterlife, or even able to know Gods very nature. LOST we would be, eternally!***

Just look at the extreme difference between your belief in billions of years, and the extreme difference of you thinking you are ‘Good’ enough!
Massive difference between your man made beliefs (religion) and Gods revelation to mankind huh?!?!?

You want to be on board the ‘Ark of Salvation’ (this time Jesus, not a boat) BEFORE judgement day....just like the days of Noah right?! If not, it will be too late, not genuine desire to be on the ark. You will die in your sins Sad

Good news or what huh?!

Thoughts?

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Life can be formed from inanimate objects; it has to do with acidity and proteins.

I love this, like there were free proteins just floating around getting it on with rocks making the first living baby cell.

CI, if you can show me a protein that violates the "Dogma of Molecular Biology" (That means a protein occurring naturally without having been manufactured by a cell from instructions encoded in DNA), I will reconsider the whole Evolution thing.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

CI, if you can show me a protein that violates the "Dogma of Molecular Biology" (That means a protein occurring naturally without having been manufactured by a cell from instructions encoded in DNA), I will reconsider the whole Evolution thing.

Surely farmer has done that already in a past post of his. Hasn't he?

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Also, https://themiracleofprotein.wordpress.com/tag/the-flawless-creation-that-turns-inanimate-atoms-into-proteins/. It's somewhat of a miracle that I remembered this from college, because that's over half century ago! Also, probably from reading farmerman's posts. I picked it up somewhere along the way.

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@cicerone imposter,

I’m only guessing the article says that randomness Can produce proteins, yes? This only confirms that randomness can only produce so much. It is so extremely limited, that anything more screams designer!

We have gone through this before.
Who was it that posted that randomness produced penis shaped clouds on this site? But yet, Randomness cannot produce The words hello and goodbye in the sky.
Likewise with clouds, sure, random processes Can produce shapes, but anything more screams designer!

I Did predict you would skip over my last post btw....

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Here is an excerpt from the link you posted.

Quote:

As this book will emphasize throughout, these miraculous molecules, the result of atoms combining in specific numbers and ways, work together in total harmony and fulfill unbelievable responsibilities by demonstrating the result of enormous intellect and consciousness. Every subject that we will consider from here on prompts an important question that every rational person of good conscience needs to ask: How are protein molecules—that arise from combinations of inanimate atoms, and which we might expect to lack any knowledge or competence—able to perform all these activities and display miraculous intelligence, organizational ability and a sense of responsibility? Everyone who reflects with true sincerity will understand that they are the flawless creations of Almighty and All-knowing Allah, and that all entities in the universe—from the greatest to the smallest—are under Allah’s control and command. His dominion over all things is revealed in a verse from the Qur’an:. . . .

. . .Coincidences can never produce a superior, complex design. To say that molecules such as proteins came into being by chance is even more illogical than claiming that a collection of rocks became a statue under the effects of random erosion, or that the waves beating on the seacost turned it into a marina.

Is that the point you were trying to make?

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@Helloandgoodbye,

By his link, it appears you have changed cicerone's mind and he is considering converting to Islam. Was that your goal?

2 Replies

@Helloandgoodbye,

Quote:

I don’t support abortion

Nor have I ever claimed you did. Such is the nature of dishonest diversionary tactics

Quote:

Yes, u have made reference to embracing evolution and ‘fossils being fact’

Your use of english in conversation is quite poor - you complained about support for interpretation of fossils (ie evolution), then when I challenge you on it - you then claim I support the fossil record - which does not relate to interpretation but is set in stone.

You claim logic, but keep braking it's chain.

The fossil record is fact. One cannot argue with a record
that in set stone - surely you're not saying all those trilobites were manufactured? Evolution is the interpretations of it - and it is the interpretation you are complaining about. Perhaps you would like to quote where I have said that evolution was fact.

As you are having difficulty with logic in conversation - that would be evolution as in the whole of evolution, rather than micro evolution, which we both seem to agree on.

Quote:

never mind your terrible interpretation of 2 Kings 2:23

Which part of what I stated, was't fact as the story portraits?
- that there was a mass killing of children
- that they called names
- that they did nothing else other than call names?

As you have called it a terrible interpretation - would you care to point out which part of my 'interpretation' was factually incorrect?

By the way - in relation to other peoples thoughts on it - I've read plenty of justifications for it already, from numerous sources. For this discusion, I'm not interested in others thoughts - I'm interested in your thoughts on it. You are the one supporting it here. You are the one claiming logic. You are the one claiming love. Use them. Explain it for yourself. Foisting off the responsibility for something like this, is never quite the same as putting it into words yourself, and doesn't show that you possess those qualities you claim to possess.

Quote:

There is no deceit like self deceit!

The irony.

2 Replies

@brianjakub,

No changing of mind; only the point that life comes out of inanimate objects. It's about evolution, not religion.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

No changing of mind; only the point that life comes out of inanimate objects.

But the point of the article you posted is the inanimate object had to be created to be able to perform such a complex operation. Does that mean you do not agree with the logical conclusion the author of the article comes to?

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Through my experience, explaining to people that the evidence screams intelligent designer is the first step, after that, the next Step is ‘who’ is the intelligent designer. So no lol.

This came from that article as well he posted:
By a most defective logic, Darwinists believe in coincidences as a creative deity and claim that structures with such a complex and superior system came into being as a result of chance. Only sincere, rational individuals of good conscience are able to see the truth,
( as I put it, the God of time and chance, The unintelligent God)

This is why he has had no change of mind it seems. . Too caught up in his religion, his man-made belief system

1 Reply

@Helloandgoodbye,

Intelligence is either "not material in origin" or "originates from an embedded universe(s) that is layers deep inside of matter. Either way it is beyond our ability to observe how intelligence initially effects matter in the here and now because it does not happen in the layer of the universe our senses exist.

Quote:

This came from that article as well he posted:
By a most defective logic, Darwinists believe in coincidences as a creative deity and claim that structures with such a complex and superior system came into being as a result of chance. Only sincere, rational individuals of good conscience are able to see the truth,

If, the intelligent information enters the universe from universes embedded layers deep in matter we will never materially be able to experience or measure it. So, how can we scientifically discuss it.

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@vikorr,

Quote ‘The fossil record is fact. One cannot argue with a record
that in set stone - surely you're not saying all those trilobites were manufactured? Evolution is the interpretations of it.’

What about the Trilobites? ( or any other fossil for that matter )

Evolution ( The kind that can turn cows into whales, or monkeys into people) is ONE interpretation of the fossil record.....You are not implying it is the only one are you?!

This man interprets the fossil record In a way that puts mankind as billions of years old.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Archeology

http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/anomalous.htm

My interpretation of the fossil record is a global flood burying everything rapidly.
in other words, No making monkeys out of mankind, Or making mankind out of monkeys. No ‘transitional fossils.’
Just terrible misinterpretations leading people to conclude that in the distant past whales had legs and half monkey man creatures roamed the earth.

1 Reply

@vikorr,

Quote: never mind your terrible interpretation of 2 Kings 2:23

Quote: Which part of what I stated, was't fact as the story portraits?
- that there was a mass killing of children
- that they called names
- that they did nothing else other than call names?

More in depth for you:
https://bible.org/seriespage/4-elisha-and-two-bears-2-kings-223-25

Elisha is Mocked (2:23b)
“Young lads.” The KJV has “little children” which really misses the meaning here. These were not children, but young men. The word “lads” is the Hebrew naar and was used of servants, of soldiers and of Isaac when he was 28 years old.
You see? This is like CI interpretating ‘thou shall not kill alllll wrong. Completely missing the truth!
What you and CI have in common here though, is that you stop short when something tickles your ears. that you got lazy for some reason, or you do not know how to research.
If you would have spent just a few minutes doing more in-depth research, you would not have concluded such a terrible interpretation.

Also from the link:
Our Lord said, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her” (Matt. 23:37). Not all Israel was true spiritual Israel, but the fact still remains true.
Even Gods own ppl(fake, or shallow ppl) can be used to cause harm, like these young men.
Why did God send out two Bears? Was is it because these young men were going to kill The Prophet, and God tharwted their plan, or was it because these young Men were so disrespectful, like spitting in the face of God kind of defiant? Either way, God judged them.

Could it be,you like the idea that a barbaric God killed little children who were not understanding, to justify your rejection of biblical scripture?
And then, by rejecting biblical scripture you reject the idea that you have a sinful nature, and everything else that goes with it. 🤔

I Hope not. I hope you are just being genuinely deceived, and don’t even know it.
Thoughts?

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Quote:

But the point of the article you posted is the inanimate object had to be created to be able to perform such a complex operation.

Our galaxy and planet earth came to be as a natural consequence of nature. How the galaxy and planets came into existence. Answers
Relevance
billy b
Best Answer: most scientists agree that the universe began about 13 billion years ago with the Big Bang, and there is evidence to support this, such as cosmic background radiation and the universe expanding at an accelerating rate.
Our sun is a second generation star, meaning that there was one before it that exploded in a supernova. most of that material condensed back into our sun, but the remainder formed a disc of material around the sun and coalesced into the planets. Earth formed at a good distance so that liquid water can form and eventually life began.
As to why life began, i cannot say for sure, but i think it was just probability. With how many stars and planets there are, life would probably form on one of them. I don't think there's any sort of grand design or any reason for us being here. Earth was just in the right place with the right elements and compounds."
Source(s):
the science channel, wikipedia, years of researching this sort of stuff
billy b · 1 decade ago /////// I believe this is as close to understanding how our earth began.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Our sun is a second generation star, meaning that there was one before it that exploded in a supernova. most of that material condensed back into our sun, but the remainder formed a disc of material around the sun and coalesced into the planets. Earth formed at a good distance so that liquid water can form and eventually life began.

The theory that light atoms are formed in stars and heavy atoms are formed in super novae or neutron stars is based on what evidence. We cannot see if it is being manufactured there or not. It is a convenient place to propose it is being manufactured since we will never be able to observe the inside of a star, a neutron star, or a super novae. You have a belief system based on a lot of conjecture and faith. Just because scientists invent the conjecture does not make it good science.

Watch these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npmDbbGbSoE Pay close attention at about 15 minutes into this video where he covers low entropy uniform temperature is an unsolved problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVDJJVoTx7s At about 13 minutes he fine tuning implies intelligence.

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Quote:

You have a belief system based on a lot of conjecture and faith. Just because scientists invent the conjecture does not make it good science.
[\quote]. It's the best we have as humans.

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@Helloandgoodbye,

Quote:

Evolution ( The kind that can turn cows into whales, or monkeys into people) is ONE interpretation of the fossil record.....You are not implying it is the only one are you?!

So having now gone back over what I wrote, and not being unable to quote me saying 'it is the correct interpretation', you are now asking a question. About time.

In answer - I don't actually care one way or another whether or not it is correct. I think it likely to be correct. I also like the idea of the existence of God - but if that is incorrect, that too does not bother me. I don't have any issue with the concept of intelligent design through evolution. I think the earth being created in 6 days is highly unlikely, but if it were ever shown to be true - that would not bother me. The issue of 'where do I come from? has never held much significance to me.

Quote:

The kind that can turn cows into whales, or monkeys into people

You really need to stop this sort of dishonesty. You claim to be christian, but constantly engage in this sort of disparagement by misrepresentation (which is dishonest). It's quite unbecoming. And use of such phraseology is also quite conducive to self-deception, so should never be engaged in by those seeking truth.

1 Reply

@Helloandgoodbye,

Quote:

Could it be,you like the idea that a barbaric God killed little children who were not understanding, to justify your rejection of biblical scripture?

You don't seem to listen too well. I have time for parts of religion. I don't have time for the parts that don't question, discourage questioning, nor the parts that promote intolerance or violence.

You cannot from there, imply a complete rejection of biblical scripture. You appear to suffer from an 'all or nothing' attitude to conversation. It is quite unhelpful to you, and anyone conversing with you.

To be more specific - I categorically reject that story as a evil act - while there are plenty of interesting, and good stories in the bible. And also, I don't view the bible as a true reflection of God, if he exists. I view the world as a true reflection. And if he exists, the world has taught me much more about him than the bible has. That doesn't mean the bible doesn't have anything of value to offer - quite the opposite - it has a lot to offer - so long as it isn't taken literally - and is read with a questioning mind, based in conscience.

If I had to hazard a guess, based on your previous writings, that view wouldn't be to your taste.

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