Evolutionry/religious nonsense

@brianjakub,

That's just babbling bullsh*t. Don't talk to me any longer, you're boring and you're deluded. It's not even entertaining/

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Well, I think its deluded to think all this order came from an explosion caused by gravity when it takes order in the form of matter to cause gravity. (At least I don't have to use the nothing plus gravity equals matter and then add a bunch of luck over an immense period of time and out pops life sequence of events) Now that is babbling bullshit masqueraded as science. So far, all science has to offer is an explanation of how the system works, not how the system came into existence. (Except for anything is possible if you give our little friend "random introduction of new information" enough time.)

The problem is random introduction of information always needs an initial framework to store the information for use later so the system can evolve and since, there was no initial framework before the Big Bang. how did the evolution start? Or, if there was a framework, what evidence do you have?

Maybe I have mistakes in my theory, maybe its a hundred percent correct and I just suck at delivering it. It sure would be nice to see that people who disagree on this sight are at least open minded enough to discuss ideas offered from different points of view. Especially when they ask for them.

Maybe farmer will consider these ideas. He always says believers in Intelligent design don't offer an alternatives. Well, here is one that works.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

http://humanorigins.si.edu/education/introduction-human-evolution

Here is a quote from that link.

Quote:

Most scientists currently recognize some 15 to 20 different species of early humans. Scientists do not all agree, however, about how these species are related or which ones simply died out. Many early human species -- certainly the majority of them – left no living descendants. Scientists also debate over how to identify and classify particular species of early humans, and about what factors influenced the evolution and extinction of each species.

Kind of hard to accept these findings. They can't agree because none make sense.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

What does his god look like?, and Fact #3: Prayers do not work, and 4) How can god look like man when a) he can be everywhere at the same time 24/7?,

What do your thoughts look like before I can see them. Where are they and what do they look like before they rearrange the atoms in your brain?

Quote:

he came into existence only 2,000 years ago when this planet is over 4.5 billion years old, and homo sapiens have been in existence for only 200,000 years.

Your thoughts exist before they rearrange the atoms in your brain and become physical so you can experience your ideas. God's ideas existed before the Word and became flesh so we can experience them.

Quote:

The christian god resembles the Greek mythology god also born of a virgin.

Noah passed on the story about God to an illiterate and primitive culture. It was then passed on orally and became Greek mythology. Like all stories passed on orally they get changed over time.

Fortunately the Jews were given the story again and they wrote it down, and then God personally stepped on to the earth as Jesus Christ and clarified the Greek mythology to its original story.

That is the truth cicerone because, it is a logical interpretation to the evidence you provided but cross referenced with corroborating evidence.

Like you've pointed out many times, your siblings did the research and understand the logical truth, why cant you?

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Some find the need for faith in a creator or God more compelling than others. Not everyone who reads what you choose to believe finds it rational. I don't understand why it's so important for you to provide what you believe as 'religion proof " (pick another term if that one gives you trouble...I don't care) and force others to agree with you. People either will or won't. I don't like mustard yellow clothing, I don't think that's a moral failing or sinful, but before you dismiss this out of hand, I wish to remind you that religious beliefs vary wildly from one area to another....there is no one size fits all.

4 Replies

@glitterbag,

With so many religions flying around the world today, it only proves that a higher power (some sort of intelligent whatever) is in the human DNA. I chose not to believe in any. I'm not an agnostic; I'm an atheist. I don't need to guess one way or the other, and trust science to explain our existence and environment.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I'll get back to you later....

0 Replies

@brianjakub,

Quote:

Kind of hard to accept these findings. They can't agree because none make sense

Thats why your elf claimed abilities in science run into a wall every time you post. Try to think this one out. Evolution favors a species by conferring fecundity to the species adapted to that specific environment. Besides, all those 20+ species of human and protohumans share the first name , HOMO. thats the higher taxa .

If you cannot undesrtand that, you are not thinking like a scientist your thinking like Ken Ham a huckster in Intelligent Design and Creation "Science"

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

actually what BJ does is a bit more pernicious than mere "religious beliefs"> I have nothing wrong with that. What he tries to do is deny a major field in bio science by conflating some word salad crap glommed from wikipedia physics articles , Neil Tyon, and H D Young texts, without any evidence to support anything he says "See?" "Thats what Ive been saying"

Noone here has that kind of time to go through his quotes and sort out the pepper from the fly ****

What amazes me is that he believes hes on the trail of something important. maybe he should be selling used cars

2 Replies

@farmerman,

I agree with you, he passes along the bullshit he believes as if it actually makes sense, so much sense that everyone else will be convinced if only they listen to him.

It was pointless for me to venture in, I know it's horse hockey but every so often I just get exasperated with myself for even reading any of it.

I don't have a clue why people feel so threatened by science...or even worse, why do they think someone's interpretation of the bible trumps fact. I wasn't trying to minimize his tortured understandings, I just get so fed up with the rampant celebration of dumb as an art form or knowledge. I actually started kicking myself as soon as i hit reply.......I'm not here to de-program zealots, sometimes I forget.

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@glitterbag,

the stories of many species into how they were "sexually isolated" by climate or geographical incidents, and then to see their fosil record as they evolved to fit a new environment is becoming more and more common a scientists in the fields are not mere "collectors of curioities".
When Walcott excavated the Burgess shale and Cope and Marsh dug around the Hell Creek, they all missed the wealth of information that the matrix provided. Today we spend as much time (maybe more) reconstructing the "neighborhood in geography and in time" so the deposit i mined for all the information it can provide.

0 Replies

@glitterbag,

Our curiosity gets to the best of us; we all do it. I even peek on some posters I have on Ignore.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

brianjakub

Quote:

Why would I need to create new evidence outside of what science is doing. We have plenty of evidence. We just need a proper interpretation of the evidence across many fields of study from physics, chemistry, and biology to philosophy, anthropology, history, and theology.

farmer

Quote:

Sam thing. Noone on your side ever takes time to explain qhere and why and HOW this data supports your beliefs. I think the reason is because noon has any idea what theyre even talking about. You seem to be drawing conclusions while waiting for someone to come along and do these "propr interpretations"

farmer

Quote:

why not make "Embedded dimensions" self explantory. Its all just a bunch of unlinked wikis . Anything that s yours, why not make into a story and use a different font or color. That way we can read where you are going. Right now your mixture of scripture and fractured science makes absolutely no sense and is kind of embarrassing to science and religion.

Embeddeddimensions is a theory that crosses over many fields of expertise. The conversation with people on this forum will help make it self explanatory. One of the reasons it not self explanatory is, there are details that seem self evident to me but, are not to everyone else. I need help filling those in.

I know it is right because I understand it. I explain it (and understand it better myself) by answering questions about it, that is how my mind works. I respect your expertise and communication skills and was hoping to discuss ideas about religious and evolutionary nonsense with you and others, because that's what people do on blogs.

farmer

Quote:

Noone here has that kind of time to go through his quotes and sort out the pepper from the fly ****

Learning is a process made up of experiences. Properly interpreted they lead to truth. The process we are learning about here (the initiation of the operating system (the organization of matter necessary to support life), and the algorithm operating inside that operating system (evolution by natural selection) is billions of years in the making and is extremely complex that requires an intelligent mind capable of understanding concepts in many scientific fields. You fit that description.

If you are to busy I understand. I am offering you what you asked for though.

I propose this. See if I can answer your first few questions on the hypothesis I proposed to make it understandable to you. I have already sorted a lot of fly **** and pepper. I can speed up the process.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Evolution favors a species by conferring fecundity to the species adapted to that specific environment. Besides, all those 20+ species of human and protohumans share the first name , HOMO. thats the higher taxa .

Quote:

con·fer
kənˈfər/Submit
verb
1.
grant or bestow (a title, degree, benefit, or right).
"moves were made to confer an honorary degree on her"
synonyms: bestow on, present to, grant to, award to, decorate with, honor with, give to, endow with, extend to
"she conferred a knighthood on him"

Quote:

fa·vor
ˈfāvər/Submit

verb
3rd person present: favors
1.
feel or show approval or preference for.
"slashing public spending is a policy that few politicians favor"
synonyms: prefer, lean toward, opt for, tend toward, be in favor of; More
2.
(often used in polite requests) give someone (something that they want).
"please favor me with an answer"
synonyms: oblige, honor, gratify, humor, indulge
"he favored Lucy with a smile"

You are bestowing properties to "evolution by natural selection" that, by the definitions of the words you used, are normally only used with people of intelligence that can make decisions. The only thing capable of making decisions like that are people or, algorithms made by intelligence (which are examples of artificial intelligence).

It appears to me that the words you chose are implying that nature has an innate "natural" intelligence that came into existence when matter started living at abiogenisis. Would you agree with that?

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Quote:

Embeddeddimensions is a theory that crosses over many fields of expertise

only in your fevered mind. It IS mostly word salad. Your internal angle crap or interatomic sub-structures is all wet as are references to interatomic angles of bonding.
If you get your stuff off wikipedia (as I suspect you do) you MUST realize that this stuff IS NOT reviewed except when something is really of major interest then we may see some editing that brings it closer to fact. Youve gotta go BEYOND the internet or else youre part of the problem.

The subjects herein do NOT skirt cosmology or even Quantum chemistry, thats mostly a dodge on your part to try to sound profound.
Several of us have spent yers teaching and in private practice and weve seen the blue books full of garbage that students, wanting to avoid learning math, use to describe phenomena.

The real sign of greatnss is being able to take difficult subjects and explain them in plain english. Youve never been able to do that because youve strung together many unrelated and non dimensionally equivalent subjects. (evolution isnt measured in units ofL2/T). You must start looking at what you Think you understand and do some dimensional equivalency analyses. ill bet you will find errors (if youre as smart as you think you are), in but a few minutes.
Look at the field equations of the several forces that youve discussed and tell me why your dimensions are inequivalent. I saw this very early when I first thought you may have undesrtood things and were just applying some hypotheses that used a God as an agent. You do that but your invoking of some off the wall relationships??? no reason unless your just trying to avoid discussing the topic.
Weve had others like you but they were better at bringing up examples of what they were talking.
Im still chuckling at what you consider as evidence when its nothing more than a wiki tube or a religious quote.

Oh well, not everybody can be a marine.

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@brianjakub,

Quote:

You are bestowing properties to "evolution by natural selection" that, by the definitions of the words you used, are normally only used with people of intelligence that can make decisions

SO? the English language is a pretty good tool for communication. Did you not understand what I said? I pity anyone who only can communicate with one noun.
Ive never ever EVER said or implied that nature has NO INNATE INTELLIGENCE. (Intelligence can also be defined as an innate ability for adaptive behavior, or structural elements Perhaps you are not familiar with how science has coopted old fashioned meanings of words. You and LF base your entire arguments on substituting computer terms into biology and Ive no argument with any of that if it really has to be.(If you recall, my argument with you guy was objecting to your application of "information or algorithm" without any search for an explainable meaning. (Words are malleable, clear meanings are what we seek).
This innate intelligence, in all my discussions has been very accurate in recognizing that chemical bonding is a constant among the types of ions and molecules, ionic, covalent, hybrid, surficial, weak, etc etc. Hell , if ya wanna call that chemical intelligence? knock yourself out.

So you , once again, have seemed to butt up against a wall of your own "design" Let me know when you can keep up with what we learn nd how we learn it in the fields in which I actually WORK.

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

Quote:

Some find the need for faith in a creator or God more compelling than others. Not everyone who reads what you choose to believe finds it rational.

I have no need for faith. I just want to understand. I want to understand where all the order in the universe came from and why so, I can figure out how to use it. I do the same with everything I use that has complexity from my car to my I-phone.

Understanding is a scientific and historical effort to understand how a systems operate the way the builders intended it.

It gets really frustrating when you tell my belief is based on faith when I understand where gravity, nuclear forces, and the constants comes from. I understand what the universe had to be like before the big bang, what changed during the Big Bang, and why all those events happened the whole time, basing that understanding on scientific and historical evidence, not faith.

The only faith I have is that God will keep his promises but, that is not relevant to this topic.

You on the other hand (and the rest of the scientific world) take it on faith that the big bang created all the hydrogen and helium necessary for the universe through a gravitational event. (though, you can't even tell me why we have gravity nor if it even existed before the big bang. I am supposing you also take it on faith that gravity did exist before hydrogen and helium).

You take it on faith that abiogenisis can happen spontaneously.

And finally, you take it on faith that the pattern we observe today which is:

That all new information that enters the universe either has an author or it's being delivered by a system that has an author like artificial intelligence in computers which also have an author.

was broken when the system known as evolution through natural selection was introduced. That system you take on faith did not have an author.

Quote:

I don't understand why it's so important for you to provide what you believe as 'religion proof " (pick another term if that one gives you trouble...I don't care) and force others to agree with you.

Because I want scientists and everybody else to quit taking things on faith in the name of science and instead, understand.

0 Replies

@glitterbag,

and farmerman

brianjakub

Quote:

How do you explain all these examples of implied intelligence behind insertion of complex info into the DNA?

This reminds me of an analogy.

A man purchased a program that plays the video game breakout over and over using random moves of the paddle but, keeping track of when it scores and then repeating that pattern over again with a minor "random" change each time remembering the pattern that scores the highest. After a couple days the program had figured out the fastest way to win at breakout.

The man said, "see I figured out the fastest way to win at breakout without using any intelligence just randomly introduced new information."

I said, "But you paid someone with intelligence to write the program."

He said, No I didn't. I paid someone who "found" the program, he used a random word generator to right the program that was very similar to the program that generated random paddle moves to beat the game. The purpose of my experiment is to show computer games can be won without intelligence and I did that."

I said," but somebody wrote the program that wrote the program with the random word generator plus, intelligence was required to build the computer it was running on."

He said, "That doesn't matter, it is to hard for me to identify that person so, I am going to assume he doesn't exist, never did exist. And since it is much simpler I am going to claim that I succeeded in proving the fastest way to win at breakout can be done without any intelligence. The other good thing is I don't have to share any credit for my discovery with him or anyone else."

How is this analogy not similar to what you are doing especially when I bring quantum mechanics (and its inability to explain the origins of any of the forces or constants), abiogenisis, and creation of matter which are all very complex systems. But, if you know how the particles of matter and the higgs field are arranged, it's easy to understand where the physical forces and constants originate and they are as intuitive as understanding the lift of an airplane wing.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

This innate intelligence, in all my discussions has been very accurate in recognizing that chemical bonding is a constant among the types of ions and molecules, ionic, covalent, hybrid, surficial, weak, etc etc. Hell , if ya wanna call that chemical intelligence? knock yourself out.

So you , once again, have seemed to butt up against a wall of your own "design" Let me know when you can keep up with what we learn nd how we learn it in the fields in which I actually WORK.

This innate intelligence runs in an operating system that requires chemical bonding to happen in a constant way among ions.

Why do ions bond in a constant way?
Why are the fine structure constant, Boltzmans, constant, Planck's constant, the gravitational constant what they are so these ions can bond so accurately?
Why are the shapes of the atomic orbitals the shape that they are?
What is the underlying structure that makes all these things happen?

All these questions must be answered to understand why biochemistry and natural evolution work. Otherwise, you are like a computer programmer saying all I need to understand is the software to run build a new advanced computer but, I don't need to understand the hardware and what needs to be improved in the microchip to run the software.

Quote:

So you , once again, have seemed to butt up against a wall of your own "design" Let me know when you can keep up with what we learn nd how we learn it in the fields in which I actually WORK

I want to go passed this wall of assuming that the answers to those questions are unnecessary to understanding natural selection and how matter and life came into existence. Because the answers reveal how it all came into existence without taking anything on faith.

Why won't you break through that wall?

2 Replies

@brianjakub,

your mind is so set that youre the carpenter with a hammer and sees all the worlds knowledge as a nail.

You invest in "science gibberish" by inserting Plancks constant etc when photovoltaic effects have nothing to do with bonding and ionic radii,also, I think you just looked up Boltzman's because itincludes A
within equations of state and simplifies .

All youve done is asymptotically mention a means of calculating the energy needed to do gaseous centrifugal separation of isotopes (not bonding) sorry.
You sound like me if I go into a french restaurant and order some "Please check your hat and coat"

1 Reply

Evolutionry/religious nonsense

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