* Bush Admin seeks to detain suspects forever without trial

Walter Hinteler wrote:

You like totalitarianism, don't you, woiyo?

Walter, I am trying to get the bushackers to offer an alternative to their complaint. Noone really has. I do not have an alternative.

Maybe some posters can THINK and come up with an alternative.

How about you???

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JDAM bombs cost $18,467 each, we used 20,000 in the opening days of the Iraq invasion (all at taxpayers expense) Justice, however, may cost the very basis of american democracy (when omitted)

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FreeDuck wrote:

woiyo wrote:
So your solution is to put each and every one on trial at taxpayer expense??

We paid for the invasion of the country where we found them. We paid for their capture and transport to Guantanamo. We paid to construct a prison on Guantanamo. We're paying for their room and board now. Why stop now?

So we should treat the suspected terrorists not as "war criminals" but common criminals. Then we pay, if guilty, to incarcerate them for "x" years.

Assuming that at some point the "war on terrorism" ends, then what??

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Assuming that at some point the "war on terrorism" ends, then what??

Well, assuming the "war on terrorism" will still be going on, after they serve their 20 years, we can recruit them to continue the good fight.

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They should be treated as one or the other, woiyo. Either they are prisoners of war, in which case they must be treated according to the Geneva conventions, or they are common criminals to be processed using the existing court system. We've created a third status with no real reason for doing so and which could very well set a dangerous precedent -- as dys so eloquently illustrated.

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woiyo wrote:

Assuming that at some point the "war on terrorism" ends, then what??

What's your suggestion? What's the current plan for if/when the 'war' ends? Would it then be ok to let them go?

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as dys so eloquently illustrated.

Wow, I love it. An a2k first for me.

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I thought it was pretty good. :wink:

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woiyo wrote:

Maybe some posters can THINK and come up with an alternative.

How about you???

You are asking too much - thinking and offering an alternative.

Actually, I DO think, the USA have already chosen an alternative, namely the illegal approach.

As said by others -carefully avoiding to write 'eloquently' on the same site with Dys' posts- either they are POW's or criminals.
For both, civilised countries have found possibilities how to handle this.

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whew I have a reputation to maintain.

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woiyo wrote:

So by "fighting terrorism" you create more terrorism.

No, it does not, but when you invade a country under false pretenses, with no connection to 9-11 or al Qaeda and you do it under "the guise of terrorism" you end up hindering the progress. When you illegally detain people, avoid the Geneva Convention laws, torture, rape and murder people simple because they are not like you, you create more terrorism. When you create a lawlessness which could only lead to a civil war once you leave, you create more terrorism. Is it that hard for you to see, or are you so blinded by the right that you think we are actually doing good by detaining people illegally,?

You need to understand the entire world has a different opinion on the US, its motives and actions after 9-11. It's just the Bushivecks, like yourself, who deny what is really going on, that we are creating more terrorism and that we have inept leadership to handle such a daunting task.

So let me ask you this, you are an Iraqi citizen. You watch the Americans come into your house, illegally raid your family and detain them, then you see pictures of torture all over the newspaper, would you still be on the side of the Americans or would you be opposed to the opposition?

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So based upon that logic, we should have done nothing??? Then they would "like us more"?

Interesting take seeing how I said nothing about doing nothing.

Let me put it to you this way,
Afghanistan = terrorism = world support = good.
Iraq = no terrorists = no WMDs = BAD.

It's as simple as that.

So now I will ask you again, are you denying that we are creating more terrorists then we are killing? Are you denying the vast majority (over 80%) of the "terrorists" are from Iraq and Iraqis, not forign fighters?

Oh and BTW, where is Bin Laden again?

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No, I do not believe we are "creating" more terrorists. We are just giving them a convienent place to go to kill Americans.

Also, I feel our mission in Iraq was a continuence of the Kuwait War as Iraq was never going to comply with the terms of surrender. As a result, the regime had to be removed. Once we captured Saddam, we should have left and let them kill each other as they have been doing for hundreds of years. Iraq is no longer a threat to US security.

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You'll probably want to split up... better chance of someone evading them that way. Idea

http://www.specialoperations.com/Aviation/Little_Birds/littlebird2.jpg

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amazing!

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<Sometimes, some responses are above my horizon>

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woiyo wrote:

So by "fighting terrorism" you create more terrorism.

Well, my opinion of the US changed following this chain of events.
I'd probably be more likely to personally take up arms against the US then Dubya would personally against Iraq.

This is not to say that I hate Americans, I just hate seeing what they're doing over there by the command of their Great Leader.

I can't see how fewer terrorists would be made from this situation. I know I wouldn't be welcoming the US, or US-imposed-anything if I were in their shoes.

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woiyo wrote:

No, I do not believe we are "creating" more terrorists. We are just giving them a convienent place to go to kill Americans.

I should have expected nothing else from you. Only somebody who has been brainwashed by the right would see this as the situation.

So tell me how many Iraqi's are now "terrorists", and furthermor how many Iraqi's were part of Al Qaeda before 9-11 and how many were on the planes that attacked us?

Also, tell the soldiers that Iraq is not a threat to Americans security. Oh and by the way, when was Iraq EVER a threat to American security??? When they were going to give all of their non-existant WMD's to terrotists??? Would that be AFTER they somehow decided to revamp the entire infastructure needed to construct WMDs without the US's or UN's notice?

You post reeks a one-sided, acute, brainwashed viewpoint the RNC loves. I hope you're a proud American.

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Joe Republican wrote:

woiyo wrote:
No, I do not believe we are "creating" more terrorists. We are just giving them a convienent place to go to kill Americans.

I should have expected nothing else from you. Only somebody who has been brainwashed by the right would see this as the situation.

So tell me how many Iraqi's are now "terrorists", and furthermor how many Iraqi's were part of Al Qaeda before 9-11 and how many were on the planes that attacked us?

Also, tell the soldiers that Iraq is not a threat to Americans security. Oh and by the way, when was Iraq EVER a threat to American security??? When they were going to give all of their non-existant WMD's to terrotists??? Would that be AFTER they somehow decided to revamp the entire infastructure needed to construct WMDs without the US's or UN's notice?

You post reeks a one-sided, acute, brainwashed viewpoint the RNC loves. I hope you're a proud American.

First of all, your make presumptions with no basis in fact. You also did not read the remainder of my post.

Only a MORON will admit that WMD's never existed in Iraq. Only a MORON would admit that Iraq was NOT a threat to the security of the US.

I never stated Iraq was involved directly in 9-11. Only a MORON could twist my statements into that conclusion.

I never voted for Bush and I do not support the post Saddam occupation as I previously stated.

Yet only a MORON would overlook that.

PS: Yes, I am a proud American, a US Proud US Military Vet, and a proud Native American. Thank you.

Are you a proud MORON??

Have a nice day.

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Joe Republican wrote:

You post reeks a one-sided, acute, brainwashed viewpoint the RNC loves. I hope you're a proud American.

So kind of you to provide DNC equivalent to off set it... save a little overcompensating with the idiotic Hitler comparison. Pots, Kettles, Helicopters... where will it all end?

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* Bush Admin seeks to detain suspects forever without trial

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