Me Too

@ehBeth,

You posted an article entitled "Schools decision to refuse girls right to say no if boys ask them to dance, challenged by pupil's parents".

I didn't do the focussing, you did.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

If you follow the articles/discussion it applied to all students.

Quote:

The girl, in her final year at Kanesville Elementary School, said her teachers had told her that all students attending the event would not be allowed to turn down an invitation to dance with another student.

The parent who made it public was the mother of a daughter which makes for better headlines

The whole thing is weird.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

[e]
While no woman has ever been clumsy or clueless, right?

If you galls know so much about it, why don't you take the lead in dating and *******?

If 'Grace' wanted something else than what he was offering, she should have asked for it. Instead she behaved as a clueless yet judgmental punk, saying nothing, waiting for him to figure it all out... That's facile.

And that was a kiss-and-tell story alright. The idea once was that people's sexual lives deserved some privacy, but apparently it's now fine and mellow to get your front lawn grazzed by a celebrity or another, give him some head, and then the next day tell the whole world on the Internet that you had that most terrible, horrible night...

Can you just get a grip? Just because I said some men are clumsy doesn't mean I believe all men or clumsy or that women NEVER behave in a clumsy or off-putting manner. Personally I find 'Kiss and Tell' stories the ultimate in bad manners and your reaction " you galls know so much about it, why don't you take the lead in dating and *******?" a glaring example of overly defensive blowback.
For unknown reasons you seem to be taking this personally......

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

I think the instant, reflex focus on girls' feelings alone means something... It manifests / examplifies the anti-man undercurrent of Me Too in the US.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Or you could just be reading too much into it. Normally boys ask girls to dance, not the other way round so it's perfectly natural to focus on the impact on girls.

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

Quote:

I find 'Kiss and Tell' stories the ultimate in bad manners

So do I. And i was shocked to note that nobody ever mentioned Ansari's right to privacy in this whole story. It looks like kiss-and-tell is now the new normal, perfectly fine. You and I are totally outdated.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Normally boys ask girls to dance, not the other way round

That gender role is unfair and part of the power imbalance Me Too is trying to address.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dSmbxzTUu7E/WoB3bdyx6GI/AAAAAAAAJz8/Z_ewKI5NIAcUIjipKKCcMkZH-QfB9s5kQCEwYBhgL/s1600/IMG_2098.JPG

When this gets people outraged (and this is what people in EhBeth's group are talking about) the movement has gone a little too far.

Kids dancing in school is not sexual assault.

This whole tangent is silly. The girl should have been allowed to opt out. Maybe this was a bad idea. But for this triggered mom to blow this up into national scandal shows the problem with the movement.

If you look for outrage in everything, you will find it.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Lots of norms in society are unfair, I think equal pay, right not to be assaulted/touched at work, equal representation politically take priority over boys having to ask girls to dance.

The latter is far harder if not impossible to legislate against anyway. Maybe when women get paid the same as men, have as many representatives in government and are not leered at and cat called in the streets they'll be more likely to ask men to dance.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

The point is that this specific gender role is linked to sexual assault. It basically teaches boys that they MUST be assertive and demanding of girls sexual favours, and that's the wrong message to send at this point in time.

There's no need for legislation. Parents and schools should simply teach kids that they are equal, and that no gender has the exclusive responsibility or right to propose.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

There's no need for legislation. Parents and schools should simply teach kids that they are equal, and that no gender has the exclusive responsibility or right to propose.

How are you going to do that without legislation? Even with equal pay legislation women's pay drags behind men's. And what about those of us who've left school?

It's not a simple case of telling people they're equal, you have to take steps to ensure they're equal because in today's society they're most definitely not.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

you have to take steps to ensure they're equal because in today's society they're most definitely not.

It is curious that White liberals have this attitude for gender, but not for race. White women are privileged compared to black men and women in almost every sphere.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

The problem is that the Feminists are making the problem worse.

It seems the message that EhBeth wants to give to girls is; protect yourself, don't touch, don't take risks, stay safe. Boys are always taught to experience, to touch, to reach out, to take risks. Boys are now being told they need to be responsible, and girls are being taught they need to be carefu

You can't reach equality while perpetuating gender stereotypes.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

How are you going to do that without legislation?

First you say (correctly) that it's impossible to legislate about this specific gender role, and in your next message you tell me it's necessary to legislate about it or nothing will change... What gives?

The evolution towards more female assertiveness in dating is already happening. Especially among young people. It's bound to accelerate after Me Too. No need for laws.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Quote:

The evolution towards more female assertiveness in dating is already happening. Especially among young people. It's bound to accelerate after Me Too. No need for laws.

I don't believe that this is true; neither in my experience as a single middle aged man, or in my sons experiences.

Read dating profiles. Women almost always use adjectives like "assertive", "take-charge" and "confident" when describing the dates they want. I don't believe men ever use these adjectives. There are dating sites here that run statistics on their users behavior. One publishes its findings, that are pretty well written by a data scientist who understands how to analyze data.

It is pretty clear that men are expected to make the first contact, plan the first dates,... and more often than not to pay.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

It's possible to legislate equal pay and employment conditions, and to police such legislation. It's next to impossible to legislate how people behave socially.

That's what gives. Next time you want the bleeding obvious explained, do me a favour and ask someone else.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

It's next to impossible to legislate how people behave socially.

Nor is it necessary...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Any other redundant adjectives you'd like to add? How about desirable?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Maybe that's another cultural difference, but i'd rather think you Max have a blind spot on this issue; your story upthtread about the woman who touched your thigh is an indication that you can't see female initiation even when it's directed to you.

In any case, it would be logically inconsistant to insist on men keeping the main responsibility for proposing, and to rant forever when some of them do it in a way and manner that doesn't totally meet today's gender equality standards...

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Glad we agree it's neither possible nor necessary, nor desirable, nor really effective, and if not presumptuous, at least inept. But that doesn't mean we can't do anything about how men and women interact socially. Me Too is an example of what can be done. And it logically requires such a rebalancing. As long as men only do the proposing, the resulting relationships will remained skewed in terms of power balance.

1 Reply

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know