14
   

Me Too

 
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Tue 7 Nov, 2017 03:08 pm
@ossobucotemp,
I suppose that could be taken for me wanting money. Cripes, no.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 7 Nov, 2017 04:18 pm
I just read a letter Maureen O'Hara wrote in 1945. She said certain persons about the studio were spreading rumors about her because she would not allow herself to be fondled or used for sex. She said she would prefer to get out of the business.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Tue 7 Nov, 2017 04:30 pm
@Olivier5,
Yup. So much of that Soon-Yi hysteria never made sense. Not then. Not now.

from the link

Quote:
#1: Soon-Yi was Woody’s daughter. False.

#2: Soon-Yi was Woody’s step-daughter. False.

#3: Soon-Yi was Woody and Mia’s adopted daughter. False. Soon-Yi was the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow and André Previn. Her full name was Soon-Yi Farrow Previn.

#4: Woody and Mia were married. False.

#5: Woody and Mia lived together. False. Woody lived in his apartment on Fifth Ave. Mia and her kids lived on Central Park West. In fact, Woody never once stayed over night at Mia’s apartment in 12 years.

#6: Woody and Mia had a common-law marriage. False. New York State does not recognize common law marriage. Even in states that do, a couple has to cohabitate for a certain number of years.

#7: Soon-Yi viewed Woody as a father figure. False. Soon-Yi saw Woody as her mother’s boyfriend. Her father figure was her adoptive father, André Previn.

#8: Soon-Yi was underage when she and Woody started having relations. False. She was either 19 or 21. (Her year of birth in Korea was undocumented, but believed to be either 1970 or ’72.)

#9: Soon-Yi was borderline retarded. Ha! She’s smart as a whip, has a degree from Columbia University and speaks more languages than you.

#10: Woody was grooming Soon-Yi from an early age to be his child bride. Oh, come on! According to court documents and Mia’s own memoir, until 1990 (when Soon-Yi was 18 or 20), Woody “had little to do with any of the Previn children, (but) had the least to do with Soon-Yi” so Mia encouraged him to spend more time with her. Woody started taking her to basketball games, and the rest is tabloid history. So he hardly “had his eye on her” from the time she was a child.

Let me add this: If anyone is creeped out by the notion of a 55-year old man becoming involved with his girlfriend’s 19-year old adopted daughter, I understand. That makes perfect sense. But why not get the facts straight? If the actual facts are so repugnant to you, then why embellish them?



plenty of cr@p to be disturbed by
don't need to add lies/"embellish"
Krumple
 
  0  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 12:02 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Well, it's intended to be about women, but I could say "Me too," and be within my rights. When I was young I had a number of events where sex was almost forced on me, except I had the strength physically to resist. Even had a knife pulled on me in one episode. (We were driving. He pulled the knife and told me to go to a motel with him. When we parked at one, I simply walked out on the street and resumed hitching.)

Al Jazeera English:

Women are recounting their experiences of sexual assault using the hashtag #MeToo. But will men take responsibility for their actions?


I can't help but see this problem as both sexes are causing the problem. Its not just "men" who are at fault. I'm not referring to clothing or porn or anything like that. I'm talking about how we have existed for hundreds of thousands of years as a species.

Men are typically placed in the role as the pursuer. If women attempt to pursue men they get bashed by both men and women. So the majority of women adhere to this social norm by waiting for a guy to make the first move. This causes the initial problem.

So guys get mixed messages when they hear women complain about men not being confident enough to approach them. So some guys try and fail and become overly frustrated going to extremes then through abuse or over the top tactics. Occasionally these actions might succeed but then they get caught when it fails and the woman complains.

Our social interactions are to blame for these kinds of extreme behavior. We create it ourselves through the pressure of success and not dealing with failure in a healthy way. Driven by biology and social acceptance as being ideal to call yourself normal makes those whom fail, desperate. It leads to craziness and extreme unacceptable behavior in some individuals.

This is the fallout of the poor design of human interaction, social acceptance and gender roles. You can't just blame men for the problem, both men and women created this problem.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 05:12 am
@ehBeth,
Not only has Allen been wrongly accused, but there's no end to the abuse he gets, no possibility of forgiveness, ever, in the minds of his abusers. Soon-Yi married Woody Allen 20 years ago, and they are still together, apparently happily married, but there's no end in sight for the puritanic hatred they get.

By the way, I once bumped into them in a high-end cheese shop (of all places...) on Madisson and East 77th or thereabout. Looked like a regular couple to me. Little did I know they were the devil incarnated...
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 06:00 am
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

Well, it's intended to be about women, but I could say "Me too," and be within my rights. When I was young I had a number of events where sex was almost forced on me, except I had the strength physically to resist. Even had a knife pulled on me in one episode. (We were driving. He pulled the knife and told me to go to a motel with him. When we parked at one, I simply walked out on the street and resumed hitching.)

Al Jazeera English:

Women are recounting their experiences of sexual assault using the hashtag #MeToo. But will men take responsibility for their actions?


I can't help but see this problem as both sexes are causing the problem. Its not just "men" who are at fault. I'm not referring to clothing or porn or anything like that. I'm talking about how we have existed for hundreds of thousands of years as a species.

Men are typically placed in the role as the pursuer. If women attempt to pursue men they get bashed by both men and women. So the majority of women adhere to this social norm by waiting for a guy to make the first move. This causes the initial problem.

So guys get mixed messages when they hear women complain about men not being confident enough to approach them. So some guys try and fail and become overly frustrated going to extremes then through abuse or over the top tactics. Occasionally these actions might succeed but then they get caught when it fails and the woman complains.

Our social interactions are to blame for these kinds of extreme behavior. We create it ourselves through the pressure of success and not dealing with failure in a healthy way. Driven by biology and social acceptance as being ideal to call yourself normal makes those whom fail, desperate. It leads to craziness and extreme unacceptable behavior in some individuals.

This is the fallout of the poor design of human interaction, social acceptance and gender roles. You can't just blame men for the problem, both men and women created this problem.

Are you correcting me? The thread was explained from the first to be about all sex abuse, from the people who choose to post here about it. If you see an issue to argue it's due to your poor comprehension.
0 Replies
 
najmelliw
 
  3  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 06:46 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Ever since the Cosby thing blew up, I have been disturbed, because I held the man in such high regard, prior. Now, adding Dustin Hoffman and Kevin Spacey to the list is doubly painful. Their public, professional, work, to me admirable. The news is like dumping acid on and melting away their accomplishments. How do others deal with the body of work such men have created?


I am somewhat conflicted about 'Me too'. First off, I feel that it's great people are speaking up and outing past and/or present offences of a sexual nature against them. I have always suspected several influential groups in our society kept the misconduct in this regard of their own staff/leaders out of the public's eye by subterfuge of all kinds. I had strong suspicions against the church, and against Hollywood too. Same goes for politicians. The one that shocked me was the BBC covering up for the people who used to work there. So yes, on the whole, I'm happy this is all being aired in such massive numbers that it can't be ignored. However, at the same time, I'm afraid it's shaping up into becoming a witch hunt:

One of my best friends has been deeply hurt by false accusations in a similar vein against him during his volunteer work as a waterscout leader for a girl group aged 8 to 12. Since I was right next to him helping out, I know first hand that the allegations were false. But because of them, he had to quit doing something he loved, and he then went and stopped other volunteer work with children as well, contending himself with a more supportive role in the background. I quit as well, in protest. Knowing this, I'm so afraid that there are some people out there who will use this phenomenon to deliberately cast shade at people they bear a grudge against.

Having said that, here's how I deal with the work of people whom are now being accused of having committed sexual offences against others.
I'll still watch their movies, and listen to their music, and what not. Here's why, and I'll list the reasons from most to least important

1) Few, if any, of these productions are solo work. Music albums and movies are produced and carried by a large number of people, after all. Banning for instance the work of Kevin Spacey from your life means inadvertently banning, for instance for the movie American Beauty, the work of actresses like Thora Birch or Annette Benning as well. It has even more impact when looking at a long running series like House of Cards...
2) This a variant of a much larger ethical conundrum: What should be done with the body of work that was either created by persons who were justly accused of criminal or morally reprehensible behavior, or by the sympathizers of a form of government/belief system deemed morally reprehensible by other parties? The one thing that immediately jumps to mind for me here, is the scientific data acquired by the so called 'camp doctors' in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I concur that the debate is still continuing on to this day, so it's certainly not the case this data was blindly accepted, but it's been used nevertheless. While an argument can be made that said data could be used to further science, and the work of an actor like Kevin Spacey could not(I reckon), then what about personal development? Imagine that Sir Richard Attenborough had been accused of something along these lines: would that mean I could no longer look at all the nature documentaries he's narrated? I find those both entertaining and very informative, and I would consider it a loss if I could no longer morally justify looking at them.
3) For me, this is either a 100 % committed or not at all deal: I find it strange to no longer look at the work of Kevin Spacey, just because I know the man and I can easily research the scope of his body of work, while at the same time doing my grocery shopping at the store where one of the managers has been accused of similar things. Or going to a garage for a check-up, where one of the mechanics has been accused. Or... or... This list can go on and on. I would drive myself batsh*t crazy (or, even more batsh*t crazy than I already am, at least) if I had to do that. So I won't.

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 07:04 am
@najmelliw,
It's a tough question to answer and I am still conflicted over it.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 08:24 am
@najmelliw,
Quote:
I'll still watch their movies, and listen to their music, and what not.

The way I see it, keeping the works of an artist who has been found guilty of being morally corrupt says nothing about me. I bought it and enjoy it because I like the music. Keeping it would not mean that I condone or support the morally corrupt behavior of the artist. My days of hero worship are well behind me.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 03:09 pm
@najmelliw,
Excellent post.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  1  
Wed 8 Nov, 2017 03:27 pm
I can see (to a certain extent) arguments for and against discarding artworks by discredited artists. Even though the cartoons, mainly by Philipp Rupprecht in "Der Stürmer" are hateful and disgusting, I wouldn't advocate destroying them all and erasing them from history, not least because they are an awful warning and of interest to psychologists etc. However an entertainment product such as a music CD is a different thing. The enjoyment of music is an emotional and, dare I say it, spiritual thing, and I don't want my emotions or spirit invaded by a paedophile.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 9 Nov, 2017 02:33 am
Quote:
Eighties child star Corey Feldman has filed a report with police after vowing to expose an alleged paedophile ring in Hollywood.
Los Angeles Police Department confirmed they are launching an investigation after receiving the actor's report.
LAPD did not confirm the nature of the allegations. Feldman's spokeswoman did not respond to a request for comment.
Feldman, now 46, has long alleged Hollywood figures molested young actors including himself and Corey Haim.
He appeared last week on The Dr Oz Show, announcing a $10m (£7.6m) fundraising campaign for a film he wants to produce about the alleged abuse scandal.
"Right off the bat, I can name six names, one of them who is still very powerful today," Feldman said.
In his 2013 autobiography, Coreyography, Feldman detailed abuse he says he and Haim suffered in Hollywood.
He blamed it for Haim's drug problems and untimely death in 2010 at the age of 38.
Feldman told ABC's Nightline in 2011: "There is one person to blame in the death of Corey Haim, and that person happens to be a Hollywood mogul.
"And that person needs to be exposed but unfortunately I can't be the one to do it."
Feldman has always declined to reveal names, citing fears of lawsuits.
But he said he had been emboldened to speak out by revelations of Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein's alleged serial sexual abuse.
It is not clear if there could be a statute of limitations on prosecutions for offences alleged by Feldman.
While he has attracted much support online, Haim's mother, Judy Haim, is among those who doubt Feldman's claims.
She told the Hollywood Reporter: "If he was serious about this, he'd share the information he has with the police."
Feldman posted an essay rebutting Ms Haim's allegation that his movie project plan is a "long con".
He and Haim starred in several films together between 1987-96, including The Lost Boys and Dream a Little Dream.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41923271
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 9 Nov, 2017 07:25 am
I don't read the work of Nazi philosophers because what would a nazi know of philosophy? But art is different because it's less about knowledge than about beauty. I find Leni Riefenstahl's work on the Nuba fascinating, even though she was a nazi. Céline's books are an amazing read, even though he was a Nazi collaborator. Picasso was a Communist, yet his oeuvre remains gorgious. Shakespeare may have been slightly antisemitic and sexist, yet his plays are still fashionable. Malaparte started of as a fascist, yet he remains IMHO one of the best Italian writers ever.

On music, IDK. I must admit that Wagner and Carl Orff bore me to death -- too grandiloquent, too pretentious. Not sure their proximity to Nazi thought plays a role in my rejection of them.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 14 Nov, 2017 11:57 am
CNN spoke with more than 50 lawmakers, current and former Hill aides and political veterans who have worked in Congress, the majority of whom spoke anonymously to be candid and avoid potential repercussions. With few exceptions, every person said they have personally experienced sexual harassment on the Hill or know of others who have.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/14/politics/sexual-harassment-congress/index.html
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 14 Nov, 2017 01:49 pm
In view of the pile of bullsh*t above: I was sickened by Allen's behavior. I still am. I don't watch his movies, which is no loss because I was never that impressed with him in the first place. My feelings and opinions are not subject to review by every phony who cruises by.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 14 Nov, 2017 02:58 pm
A bit of a contrarian take on it, but I think she makes a valid point.

Quote:
Why I'm Not Joining The #MeToo Hashtag Even Though I Was Sexually Harassed
It's watering down the stories that really deserve to be told.
by Libby-Jane CharlestonAssociate Editor, HuffPost Australia

http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/libby-jane-charleston/why-im-not-joining-the-metoo-hashtag-even-though-i-was-sexually-harassed_a_23245315/

.... I'd be interested to meet a person who has never ever encountered sexual harassment of one kind or another, whether it's a wolf whistle, an outright assault or one of those 'If you let me touch you, you'll get this job' scenarios.

So as people keep adding #MeToo to their social media, what will really make me gasp is if anybody adds #NoNeverMe.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 14 Nov, 2017 03:10 pm
@Setanta,
I lost interest in Allen's movies before the controversy. The news stories about him make him seem pretty sleazy.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 15 Nov, 2017 01:54 am
@edgarblythe,
Do news stories make Soon-Yi Périn seem pretty sleazy too?

Sleaze is often in the eye of the beholder.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 15 Nov, 2017 05:22 am
@Olivier5,
When the stories about Allen are consistent over so many years, it tends to tarnish the image.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 15 Nov, 2017 07:37 am
@edgarblythe,
Many "consistent stories" about Obama being Kenyan, too.
 

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