"A Flood of Troubled Soldiers Is in the Offing...."

In the old days, PTSD was called, "shell shocked", and you are right, dlowan, it was not spoken of much at all. We all know of someone who had come back from the war, shell shocked, and "never was the same". We are fortunate that now there is treatment for this disorder.

I think its great PTSD is getting more amd more recognition, and that treatment methodologies are continually improvin' - psychic trauma is trauma, even if there's no blood. Its a much a wound as a bullet hole. What I object to isn't that at all ... just so thats clear.

"Snow falling on Cedars" is a wonderful evocation of the chasm of war, and how people who have been through that chasm are never the same.

Thing is, after WW II, there was much quiet talk among the women about how many of the men were never the same - mostly the guys never talked - though I did notice, amongst my parents' friends, that a couple of the men and women who had been prisoners of the Japanese DID talk - not details, but they contributed to discussions of whether Australia should trade with Japan and such - (generally saying that they hated Japanese - knew it was unfair, but still did, were happy for Oz to trade and be friends - but they could never see a Japanese person again.)

There is now a wave of women speaking out, who were forced into prostitution by the Japanese, in Australia (where a truly wonderful Dutch woman has led the discussion here) and all over Asia. THEIR trauma could never be discussed - though many told their husbands - because of the shame. In every war, huge numbers of women are especially traumatised, because of the common use of rape as a terror tactic.

Well, quite what caused your outburst then is rather opaque to me, Timber. perhaps you might care to elucidate?

One of the things that has recently shocked me about our Vets' Hospital and health service, Phoenix, is that I have recently discovered that - at least in this state - there has not been on offer proper treatment for PTSD.

The guys that gather there, and have been troubled since the war, are now, I think, so entrenched in the "Sick Vietnam Vet" lifestyle, that I doubt they would know what to do if they WERE treated properly - they would lose 35 years' worth of toxic and ruinous identity, and all their boozing mates.

I have a friend working there now who IS offering proper therapy - and is managing to get rid of the worst symptoms for a number of them - some WW II vets, who have suffered, pretty much in silence, except within their families, who have suffered a great deal, too- for 60 years.

Ya ever see Paradise Road , dlowan?

Either way, perhps of interest is this very well done Guide for Historians: Paradise Road , from the absoutely awesome Australian War Memorial

Yep - seen Paradise Road. Forced to perform the songs endlessly, too.

Ahhhh .... you did a theater production of it?

Lol - no. (We DID do a spoof of the Sound of Music, though - "These are a few of my favourite drugs" - not to mention the Ring Cycle...)

Was just in a women's singing group - and the musical director - and a number of the women - loved the songs.

The harmonies are great, but the songs aren't my thing, generally.

Ring Cycle, huh? Tryin' to wrap my brain around the concept of a warblin' wabbit wearin' a shiny cuirasse, a horned helmet, and holdin' a spear .... while wailin' to Wotan .... hmmmmmmmm


Damn! Gettin' a headache. Gonna give that train o' thought up

We did the Ride of the Valkyrie with coconut shells...

No wonder the National Guard is having a difficult time. Sad to think that despite this article, their mental difficulties will likely be swept under the rug as are the physical injuries of the returning troops.

Prior to the Iraq War, the United States National Guard was considered a defensive group set up to protect this country in this country from foreign incursions. Their oath of enlistment includes their state governor as commander to show that they have a strong homeland commitment.

Ridiculous as it may seem to those outside the United States, in this era of what should be and is ballyhooed as increased homeland security, our home forces, our first line of defense, are being sent halfway around the world. It is one of the less brilliant maneuvers of this administration.

Lest anyone think I'm denying it, it is true that as part of their oath, they HAVE to do what the president says, however asinine it might be.

And just so nobody feels that have to take my word for this, here's the pertinent article from Wikipedia, the internet encyclopedia, stating that up until the Iraq War, National Guardsmen and women were not expected to serve overseas for extended periods.

Well Frank-

Check out the profle of the poster.

I'm a vet myself.The conditions I referred to are mainly about funding and if you want to have a say on that you really ought to get yourself elected.You need not worry about my concern for soldiers and ex-soldiers.You won't hear me complaining about taxation.
The very idea that we on this thread have anything to contribute on such a serious matter is an insult to those who's job it is.In my book its patronising and I know,yes know,having been there,what most other military think.Not all I'll admit.Just most.
There's plenty of literature here which deals with the rehab of military personnel going back a long way and the progress in the last hundred years is astounding despite the fact that it took place without input from threaders who are basically "at play".
There's not one useful idea on the whole thread so far.Just a load of assertions designed to allow the poster to get a "virtue buzz".Having got it one can easily imagine the poster swanning off to the shops or the golf course and forgetting all about it which the professionals won't be doing.
But it is the funding and the military exigencies.To be consistent you can never complain about tax again.
I think you are also in some danger of stereotyping.
Military personnel are individuals with individual agendas.That's a massive problem on its own.They only interview those who play well on your screens.
They would never have interviewed me or any of my pals because the couchies back home wouldn't have been able to take it.You might be confusing what you see on the news with the reality.The reality I'm afraid is nothing like what we see on our news.It has 24 hours in every day.It isn't soundbites as consumer goods.It goes on and on and on and its mostly deadly boring,dirty and the intellectual ambience is mighty cynical and the cynicism is at its mightiest when the concerned and caring back home are discussed.Sometimes there's only discussion to help pass the time.Try not having a bath for three months.At 125 in the shade with all the kit on.And the papers and TV screens full of fatuity because they all know that the consumer soon gets war fatigue.

I'm sorry if I got your dander up.There it is.No hard feelings.Its only debate.I don't hold grudges.

spendius.

You make a fool of yourself, Spendius.

And you clearly do not read other folks' posts.

Just as a for instance, I am a therapist specializing in trauma. I see no need to wank about this in my profile - I am generally not here to add to my workload. As well, there are a number of veterans on this thread - as well as people with a lot of experience in simply being close to deeply traumatised ex-soldiers.

Feel free to state your unsupported by reality beliefs here as elsewhere - but you will look less foolish and bigoted if you take time to read what people say.

dlowan- I go with my husband to the Veterans' hospital. Outside the main door, there is a sign, "The price of freedom is seen here". It is really quite heartbreaking. Besides the physical disabilities, you see a lot of guys from the Vietnam era, who have obvious psychiatric problems. I really wonder how good a job the VA is doing.

When he first signed up with the VA, he could not get a picture ID, because the camera was broken. Nearly a year later, the camera is STILL non-functioning. His primary doctor wanted him to see a specialist. He waited six months for his appointment. I think that just about sums it up.

I've read it all.Three or four times.
It is a very difficult topic.It won't be helped by trotting out unsupported assertions.
I simply gave a point of view I know to be widely held by people who are trying to forget it.I'm a member of The British Legion.
I've read Armstrong's book on the psychopathology of war and he was in charge in 1918.
There's only one answer.FUNDING.Seek to increase that and I'm right behind you.But that means seeking to decrease funding on some other things.I'm sure you know what I mean.Subsidised opera seats eh?Just to kick it off.

spendius.

Wave your flags, wear your lapel pins, do what The Glorious Leader demands, and ask no questions.
Then... treat your veterans as if they were disposable... let them suffer and die while you dedicate grandiose Memorials.
Let your pandering politicians get their photos on Page One beside a granite marker and a flag... while the vets expire under a nearby bridge/overpass.

I've done volunteer work at/for the VA hospitals... and found that conditions there were far less that laudable.
There are many talented and well-intentioned individuals working in the field... but their efforts are woefully underfunded by our gummint.
What the nation does for the casualties of war is shamefully inadequate.

That's kind of cold. Phoenix. When I was young I knew a man much older who had *volunteered* to go to Vietnam. What was he thinking?! Well, he was only 17 at the time (I don't know if he had to lie or what all to get in) and he wanted/needed to get away from his family, which was not a happy one, to say the least. I don't know if came back from Vietnam any more f'ed up than when he went in, but I suspect it didn't help.

primergray- It may sound cold, but it is the unvarnished truth. I think that many people joined the volunteer military, because they thought in terms of the perks of being in the service. Many probably never dreamed that one day they would be in harms way, on the battlefield.

Maybe, as a stab at "truth in advertising" the recruiters need to tell these very young people about the dangers that they may face while in the service. I think that they need to learn that the military is not all "see the world, and get an education on Uncle Sam".