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Thu 16 Dec, 2004 04:19 am
I have been wondering about this ....
A Flood of Troubled Soldiers Is in the Offing, Experts Predict
By SCOTT SHANE
Published: December 16, 2004
WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - The nation's hard-pressed health care system for veterans is facing a potential deluge of tens of thousands of soldiers returning from Iraq with serious mental health problems brought on by the stress and carnage of war, veterans' advocates and military doctors say.
An Army study shows that about one in six soldiers in Iraq report symptoms of major depression, serious anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder, a proportion that some experts believe could eventually climb to one in three, the rate ultimately found in Vietnam veterans. Because about one million American troops have served so far in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Pentagon figures, some experts predict that the number eventually requiring mental health treatment could exceed 100,000.
"There's a train coming that's packed with people who are going to need help for the next 35 years," said Stephen L. Robinson, a 20-year Army veteran who is now the executive director of the National Gulf War Resource Center, an advocacy group. Mr. Robinson wrote a report in September on the psychological toll of the war for the Center for American Progress, a Washington research group.
"I have a very strong sense that the mental health consequences are going to be the medical story of this war," said Dr. Stephen C. Joseph, who served as the assistant secretary of defense for health affairs from 1994 to 1997.
What was planned as a short and decisive intervention in Iraq has become a grueling counterinsurgency that has put American troops into sustained close-quarters combat on a scale not seen since the Vietnam War. Psychiatrists say the kind of fighting seen in the recent retaking of Falluja - spooky urban settings with unlimited hiding places; the impossibility of telling Iraqi friend from Iraqi foe; the knowledge that every stretch of road may conceal an explosive device - is tailored to produce the adrenaline-gone-haywire reactions that leave lasting emotional scars.
And in no recent conflict have so many soldiers faced such uncertainty about how long they will be deployed. Veterans say the repeated extensions of duty in Iraq are emotionally battering, even for the most stoical of warriors..............
..........most military personnel will survive the war without serious mental issues and note that the one million troops include many who have not participated in ground combat, including sailors on ships. By comparison with troops in Vietnam, the officials said, soldiers in Iraq get far more mental health support........
........."We're seeing an increasing number of guys with classic post-traumatic stress symptoms," said Dr. Evan Kanter, a psychiatrist at the Puget Sound veterans hospital in Seattle. "We're all anxiously waiting for a flood that we expect is coming. And I feel stretched right now."........
..................Capt. Tim Wilson, an Army chaplain serving outside Mosul, said he counseled 8 to 10 soldiers a week for combat stress. Captain Wilson said he was impressed with the resilience of his 700-strong battalion but added that fierce battles have produced turbulent emotions.
"There are usually two things they are dealing with," said Captain Wilson, a Southern Baptist from South Carolina. "Either being shot at and not wanting to get shot at again, or after shooting someone, asking, 'Did I commit murder?' or 'Is God going to forgive me?' or 'How am I going to be when I get home?' "...........
.........Through the end of September, the Army had evacuated 885 troops from Iraq for psychiatric reasons, including some who had threatened or tried suicide. But those are only the most extreme cases. Often, the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder do not emerge until months after discharge......
..........To prevent such damage, the Army has deployed "combat stress control units" in Iraq to provide treatment quickly to soldiers suffering from emotional overload, keeping them close to the healing camaraderie of their unit.......
.......And the health screens have run up against an old enemy of military medicine: soldiers who cover up their symptoms. In July 2003, as Jeffrey Lucey, a Marine reservist from Belchertown, Mass., prepared to leave Iraq after six months as a truck driver, he at first intended to report traumatic memories of seeing corpses, his parents, Kevin and Joyce Lucey, said. But when a supervisor suggested that such candor might delay his return home, Mr. Lucey played down his problems.
At home, he spiraled downhill, haunted by what he had seen and began to have delusions about having killed unarmed Iraqis. In June, at 23, he hanged himself with a hose in the basement of the family home.
"Other marines have verified to us that it is a subtle understanding which exists that if you want to go home you do not report any problems," Mr. Lucey's parents wrote in an e-mail message. "Jeff's perception, which is shared by others, is that to seek help is to admit that you are weak."
Dr. Kilpatrick, of the Pentagon, acknowledges the problem, saying that National Guardsmen and Reservists in particular have shown an "abysmal" level of candor in the screenings. "We still have a long ways to go," he said. "The warrior ethos is that there are no imperfections."
Full story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/16/national/16stress.html?ei=5088&en=841616d50929b939&ex=1260939600&partner=rssnyt&pagewanted=all&position=
This is a subject best left to those involved.I'm sure they are as good as conditions permit.There is a serious impertinence involved when the likes of us butt in on it.We don't know anything relevant about the matter.We are playing around.
Butt out
spendius
War is hell, and the fallout from it is horrific. The government needs to provide mental health services to those military people who require it.
There is one major difference though, between Iraq and Vietnam. In Vietnam, the majority of military were conscripts. Many of them were against the war, which undoubtedly brought up many conflicts. Today we have a volunteer army. The people who join want to be in the military. They are trained to be warriors.
The bottom line is, that if you are afraid of heights, and tend to fall over your feet, you don't join the circus and become a tightrope walker.
spendius wrote:This is a subject best left to those involved.I'm sure they are as good as conditions permit.There is a serious impertinence involved when the likes of us butt in on it.We don't know anything relevant about the matter.We are playing around.
Butt out
spendius
This is just about the worst advice I've ever, personally, seen given in an Internet forum!
Not sure what kind of mindset dreamed it up...but it gives new meaning to the term "wrongheaded."
War is hell.
This all volunteer army is young and fit and frequently naive. The Reserves are being unexpectedly exploited. Most of these men and women are neither naturally violent nor inherently callused.
I hope we're making healing plans for the peace.
I've posted this link a few times since reading the article in August
New Yorker article
this thread gave several of us a heads up
spendius wrote:This is a subject best left to those involved.I'm sure they are as good as conditions permit.There is a serious impertinence involved when the likes of us butt in on it.We don't know anything relevant about the matter.We are playing around.
Butt out
spendius
You really couldn't be more wrong about this, spendius.
Things are not as good as conditions permit.
There are mental health professionals on this board, and on this thread.
There are veterans on this board, and on this thread.
Relevant things are known.
Quote:There is one major difference though, between Iraq and Vietnam. In Vietnam, the majority of military were conscripts. Many of them were against the war, which undoubtedly brought up many conflicts. Today we have a volunteer army. The people who join want to be in the military. They are trained to be warriors.
You are so wrong, Phoenix. Many of the soldiers seeing the worst action over there are National Guard. These people didn't join the National Guard to travel overseas and risk their lives in a country that we have no reason being in. They joined for benefits perhaps, maybe a way to further their education, but I am quite sure they never expected to be in combat.
Now apologize, Phoenix, or I'll have to spank you.
Phoenix32890 wrote:
The people who join want to be in the military. They are trained to be warriors.
If you'll look at the article I posted, Phoenix, you'll see that one of the problems that has been identified is that the "warriors" were trained to fight at a distance - to drop bombs - play a video game war - not to see the people they're killing. The invasion of Iraq - and face to face killing is not what these troops were trained for.
It's a friggin' mess in too many ways to count.
Amen, ebeth.
(Let's gang up on Phoenix!)
I would like to enter this fray but, at he moment, I am unarmed. What the hell, volunteer army my ass, the violence of war is the violence of war and it scars everyone. (mostly the grunts who muck about in the actuality of war) Those that come home may get parades and the glad-hand for a day or so and then only desired to be seldom seen and even more seldom heard from.
spendius wrote:. . . Butt out
spendius
Butt out?
Butt out, yourself, and have your own private little discussion. I'm sure you'll get lots of agreement
I think he was describing his latest sexual adventures, roger.
Re: "A Flood of Troubled Soldiers Is in the Offing....&
dlowan wrote:I have been wondering about this ....
At home, he spiraled downhill, haunted by what he had seen and began to have delusions about having killed unarmed Iraqis. In June, at 23, he hanged himself with a hose in the basement of the family home.
"Other marines have verified to us that it is a subtle understanding which exists that if you want to go home you do not report any problems," Mr. Lucey's parents wrote in an e-mail message. "Jeff's perception, which is shared by others, is that to seek help is to admit that you are weak."
Dr. Kilpatrick, of the Pentagon, acknowledges the problem, saying that National Guardsmen and Reservists in particular have shown an "abysmal" level of candor in the screenings.
Lots to wonder about. How do they know these were delusions? Is the Warrior Mentality itself a disorder? Isn't candor the first casualty in war?
Whether or not the volunteers anticipated actually being called upon to carry out the defining function of a military when they voluntarily joined the military absolutely is irrelevant, as are their preferences in the matter, whether concerning war and combat in general or their particular current personal situation. You take the oath, you take your chances.
As for the notion troops are "trained to fight at a distance", that's pure poppycock, at least as applied to infantry; the primary mission of the infantry is and always has been to close with, engage, and destroy the enemy. Every other aspect of infantry is subordinate to that mission.
Folks are entitled to oppose and/or criticize war and violence in general, or in the particular specific of any given conflict. Thats freedom, and any free individual should have no compunction against voicing any opinion. On the other hand, basing one's criticism or objection on false, misleading, or otherwise irrelevant and/or immaterial criteria invalidates the criticism and demeans the individual so engaged.
I read the articles - and as a free individual, I'll say its my opinion their authors know about as much of the realities of war and the military as a fish knows of chess.
Hmmm - yet, in all wars, a certain percentage of the poor bastards fighting them (and being bombed/shot at/witnessing the carnage who are non-combatants will) end up with PTSD - just as a certain percentage of folk will end up with it after other horrible events.
Fortunately, with more and more being learned of the problem, good research guides good interventions in the field - but, a very salient point in THIS war is that, as with Vietnam, it is very hard to distinguish enemy combatant from civilian minding their own business - and we already know that numbers of civilians - and friendly troops - have been killed in the kind of panic and hypervigilance this produces. Such incidents may be especially hard on troops.
I am extremely surprised by Spendius' comments. PTSD in returning soldiers has long been (fortunately an increasingly widely acknowledged) issue for the community as a whole - as well as for the people suffering directly.
The more it is openly discussed, and we are all educated about it, and the more veterans are supported in getting help for it fast - whenever it occurs - (I am in touch with a group of Oz Vietnam vets right now who had been fine, it appears, for 30 years, and have suddenly developed florid PTSD - and who were NOT receiving the proper treatment - the local vets' psychiatry people were not providing it) and the least stigma it bears, the better for everyone, I think.
I also speak as someone who routinely treats PTSD - and as someone whose beloved uncle killed himself 20 years after WW II - because of his PTSD - caused by knowing that he was bombing his own troops sometimes, just after D Day, because of the enormous confusion and fluidity of the front in the weeks after that. The problem just wasn't discussed in those days.
timberlandko wrote:Whether or not the volunteers anticipated actually being called upon to carry out the defining function of a military when they voluntarily joined the military absolutely is irrelevant, as are their preferences in the matter, whether concerning war and combat in general or their particular current personal situation. You take the oath, you take your chances.
As for the notion troops are "trained to fight at a distance", that's pure poppycock, at least as applied to infantry; the primary mission of the infantry is and always has been to close with, engage, and destroy the enemy. Every other aspect of infantry is subordinate to that mission.
Folks are entitled to oppose and/or criticize war and violence in general, or in the particular specific of any given conflict. Thats freedom, and any free individual should have no compunction against voicing any opinion. On the other hand, basing one's criticism or objection on false, misleading, or otherwise irrelevant and/or immaterial criteria invalidates the criticism and demeans the individual so engaged.
I read the articles - and as a free individual, I'll say its my opinion their authors know about as much of the realities of war and the military as a fish knows of chess.
Not sure that expecting to - or not expecting to - fight is one of the risk factors for developing PSTD.
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