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Diversity of Everything but Thought

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:09 pm
Ican, you ever read Anthony Burgess, especially his Clockwork Orange? quite an amazing book really and a very dark look at the fruits of liberal machinations into the manipulations of basic human nature. Well anyway Burgess created his own language for the characters in the book and included a dictionary at the end of the book which is really quite fascinating and is somewhat of a hybrid of russian/british slanguage. I think you would enjoy the book.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:30 pm
dys

It's no small thing you ask here. What is Jesus to do? On the one hand, He's got His own ideas but on the other there's His Dad Who has talked about smiling on seeing the smoke from the fires of those souls burning in hell forever. That's a long time to hold a smile but, more to the point, what an odd thing to smile about. Or there is the Heavenly dining on the humans flesh part. The turning people into salt. Whacking the first born boys...curly hair, brown eyes, playing pattycake maybe or napping and dreaming of grandma...WHACK.

And yet Jesus looks at those folks standing and sitting all around and...He's kind. Now, you got to hand it to Him here, kindness isn't a common quality in Gods. Perhaps They think They'll look weak or effeminate if They went telling humans that those humans ought not to cast the first stone, and helping the sick and poor is good, and turning the other cheek is holy, if, that is, They didn't then go and slaughter many of those humans at the end of the story. Jesus was cooler than that. Kinder than that. If you think about it, he was just as much us as his Dad. That's what They both wanted after all, and we know that because that's why They agreed Jesus should go to public school, not private school for the Priviledged and Unhuman.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:34 pm
I viddie that my droogies . . .
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:51 pm
Blatham writes
Quote:
foxfyre

The lie was "I've made no decision to go to war. There are no plans for war on my desk".


I would ask, as Ican did, when was this said, and have you read Tommy Franks' book? And finally, does Canada or any other country generally telegraph the decision to go to war before the order is given? (I have read Woodward's book.)

And as for what Horowitz you have read, can you say with definitive authority that the passages you quoted are instructions and/or encouragement for Republicans? Or are they descriptions of what he believes the Democrats do?
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 09:31 pm
I posted this on the wrong thread this afternoon. And now it's out of sequence. But here it is anyway.

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1213-05.htm

Quote:

Published on Thursday, December 13, 2001 in the San Jose Mercury News
Lynne Cheney-Joe Lieberman Group Puts Out a Blacklist
by Roberto J. Gonzalez

AN aggressive attack on freedom has been launched upon America's college campuses. Its perpetrators seek the elimination of ideas and activities that place Sept. 11 in historical context, or critique the so-called war on terrorism.
The offensive, spearheaded by the American Council of Trustees and Alumni, a Washington-based group, threatens free speech, democratic debate and the integrity of higher education. In an incendiary report, ``Defending Civilization: How Our Universities Are Failing America,'' the American Council claims that ``colleges and university faculty have been the weak link in America's response'' to Sept. 11. It also asserts that ``when a nation's intellectuals are unwilling to defend its civilization, they give comfort to its adversaries.''

The report documents 117 campus incidents as ``evidence'' of anti-Americanism. More than 40 professors are named, including the president of Wesleyan University, who suggested in an open letter that ``disparities and injustices'' in American society and the world can lead to hatred and violence.

Other examples abound. A Yale professor is criticized for saying, ``It is from the desperate, angry and bereaved that these suicide pilots came.'' A professor emeritus from the University of Oregon is listed for recommending that ``we need to understand the reasons behind the terrifying hatred directed against the U.S. and find ways to act that will not foment more hatred for generations to come.''

Dozens more comments, taken out of context and culled from secondary sources, are presented as examples of an unpatriotic academy.

The American Council of Trustees and Alumni was founded in 1995 by Lynne Cheney, the vice president's wife, and Sen. Joseph Lieberman. Its Website claims that it contributed $3.4 billion to colleges and universities last year, making it ``the largest private source of support for higher education.'' Cheney is cited several times in the report, and is reportedly a close associate of its authors, Jerry Martin and Anne Neal.

Although the council's stated objectives include the protection of academic freedom, the report resembles a blacklist. In a chilling use of doublespeak, it affirms the right of professors to speak out, yet condemns those who have attempted to give context to Sept. 11, encourage critical thinking, or share knowledge about other cultures. Faculty are accused of being ``short on patriotism'' for attempting to give students the analytical tools they need to become informed citizens.

Many of those blacklisted are top scholars in their fields, and it appears that the report represents a kind of academic terrorism designed to strike fear into other academics by making examples of respected professors.

The report might also function to extend control over sites of democratic debate -- our universities -- where freedom of expression is not only permitted but encouraged.

At my campus, symposiums, teach-ins and lectures about religion, terrorism, central Asia, the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy have been organized recently. A teach-in entitled ``Background for Understanding'' drew hundreds of students, faculty and citizens from many political and intellectual perspectives. The audience had the opportunity to ask questions and comment freely. The discussion was lively and at times contentious.

As a microcosm of society, the university is a place where people of different ethnicities, religions, generations, and class backgrounds exchange ideas and opinions. Anyone who has visited Bay Area colleges knows that they are especially rich places for intercultural exchange.

The vigorous and often heated debates typical of such encounters are a hallmark of democratic processes. On most campuses this can still be done freely, but official accusations of anti-Americanism might intimidate and silence some voices.

That is not patriotism, but fascism. The American Council's position is inaccurate and irresponsible. Critique, debate, and exchange -- not blind consensus or self-censorship -- have characterized America since its inception.

Our universities are not failing America. On the contrary, they are among the few institutions offering alternatives to canned mainstream media reports.

The targeting of scholars who participate in civic debates might signal the emergence of a new McCarthyism directed at the academy. Before it escalates into a full-blown witch hunt in the name of ``defending civilization,'' faculty, students and citizens should speak out against these acts of academic terrorism.


Roberto J. Gonzalez is an assistant professor in the Department of Anthropology at San Jose State University.

© 2001 The Mercury News



I post the above article in order to point out that Horowitz's campaign is not new.

_________________
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 09:37 pm
Quote:
And as for what Horowitz you have read, can you say with definitive authority that the passages you quoted are instructions and/or encouragement for Republicans? Or are they descriptions of what he believes the Democrats do?


Horowitz says that he learned these tactics from the left in the 60s. But he is recommending their use now with no apologies. The left has been disorganized for years. We sillies thought we had effected real change that would last. Silly us. It's taken the liberals a long time to begin to get it together again. So it can't be that Horowitz is simply trying to warn conservatives about what to expect. That's an unbelievable idea.

No, he and Rove and Luntz and other Rovians have taken these techniques and developed them into highly effective methods of political control. Thank god the liberals are finally facing what has to be done. I hope it's not too late.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 09:57 pm
Well I will ask you to provide your sources too Lola. So far Blatham has dodged the question of Horowitz's intent. Do you have a crystal ball that is more authoritative?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:01 pm
Quote:
I would ask, as Ican did, when was this said,
For goodness sakes...just type in "there are no war plans on my desk". For starters (note he's talking to reporters, thus to his citizens and the world...

Quote:
"I told the Chancellor that I have no war plans on my desk, which is the truth." - May 23, 2002 to German Chancellor Schroeder

"I told the Prime Minister there are no war plans on my desk." - June 23, 2002 to Australian Prime Minister Howard

"I told President Chirac, I have no war plans on my desk." - May 26, 2002 to French President Chirac


As to the danger of 'telegraphing' an attack...this was a surprise?? The credible argument for troop buildup and massing for war and ACTUALLY threatening war was to avoid it. Get the inspectors in again, get the programs, if there, shut down. That's what they said they were doing. That was a lie. They had no intention of avoiding war. They decided to go to war before the meeting noted in the memo. That's what the memo tell us. Inspectors, and inspection results, were irrelevant. Precisely as Blix said at the time. And the demonization machine went after Blix because he was OPPOSITION to the planned war.

I have complete confidence none of this will be admitted by you.

Quote:
And as for what Horowitz you have read, can you say with definitive authority that the passages you quoted are instructions and/or encouragement for Republicans? Or are they descriptions of what he believes the Democrats do?


Read Ican carefully and you'll have it. The Left in America is - in Horowitz's mind - Leninist Communism in plan and in deed (his chapter on "Neocommunism" is a treat to read). It is attacking America and must be rooted out, limb and evil branch. Where and when Horowitz is opposed, that opposition is coming from bad guys...that's how he spots bad guys (liberals which means leninists, mao followers, terrorist supporters, and un-Americans)...they oppose him. Cute trick. It's an axiom and Ican weilds it with enthusiasm...everything and anything Horowitz suggests as rightwing strategy is really - prest o change o - liberal strategy. He is guilty of nothing - he can be guilty of nothing imprudent or undemocratic or Leninist because he's merely channeling the liberals of America.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:26 pm
I don't see that at all in any of Horowitz's stuff I have read. When I get the book, I'll get back to you.

As for George Bush's statements, I imagine there was no war plan on his desk. There may have been discussions in process, and according to Tommy Franks, that was never denied, but that wasn't the question. And I find it very odd that GWB would have used those precise words to all those national leaders within that timespan. Do you have a source? I found a lot of links re his much-publicized conversation with Schroeder, but not the others using those specific words, and even the reports from around the world drew different conclusions from what he intended with that phrase.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/23/gen.war.on.terror/

http://www.useu.be/Categories/GlobalAffairs/May2302BushSchroederIraqTerrorism.html

http://www.hindu.com/2002/05/24/stories/2002052403141400.htm

http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/957061.htm
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:34 pm
Lola has it.

Horowitz channels liberals. It's preferable to actually quoting them speaking for themselves. Nearly 50% of Horowitz's end notes (a curiosity indeed) are either Horowitz quoting himself or some further comment by him. He quotes Marx. He quotes Euripides. He quotes newspapers and townhall. Quotes from liberals talking about liberalism or democrats talking about democratic strategy....I just spent five minutes going through these end notes and I found zero. I mean zero.

We can bring here (we have brought here) the words, spoken and written, by key figures on the contemporary right in america...luntz, Rove, Norquist, Kristol, Perle, Horowitz, Cheney, Woo, Robertson, Bush, Gonzales, Coulter...it doesn't matter who spoke and it doesn't matter what they said, it will not be validly criticizeable. Cannot be.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:36 pm
start here

Then reread Woodward.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:38 pm
And, assuming your take on this is correct and I'm not agreeing to it yet, given the claptrap presented by the left to indict the right on far less evidence than what Horowitz presents, you find Horowitz somehow more sinister?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:43 pm
And I can't believe you quoted the "Brad Blog" as an authoritative source. Smile
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 12:04 am
Foxfyre wrote:
And, assuming your take on this is correct and I'm not agreeing to it yet, given the claptrap presented by the left to indict the right on far less evidence than what Horowitz presents, you find Horowitz somehow more sinister?


There is no valuable response I might give your predictably unspecific and Manichean sentence fox. Horowitz will happily feed your appetite for black and white, thus he's exactly the fellow to read.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 05:30 am
Well at least I intend to read him while you seem to be content to draw your own firm conclusions without having done so.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 05:34 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Well I will ask you to provide your sources too Lola. So far Blatham has dodged the question of Horowitz's intent. Do you have a crystal ball that is more authoritative?


I have one just like yours, Foxfire. You get one with more scientific authority and I'll get one too.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 05:42 am
Then it's safe to say that you haven't read Horowitz either, Lola? You have only read what his opponents have said about him?
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Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:02 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Blatham writes
Quote:
Given the revelations from Woodward's book, and now the Brit intel memo, did Bush lie


I don't think there's enough information there to know whether Bush lied or not. I like Tommy Franks' version of what went down on the initial planning best. He was right there in the war room. All others, including Woodward, are purely speculating based on information that may or may not be even pertinent to the conclusions they assume.

Do I think that Bush lied about the WMD? No. I don't. I think he believed they would find huge amounts of it. I think almost everybody believed that until they got into the country after the invasion.



Of course, even if you caught George Bush with his hand in the cookie jar, you would swear on twenty Bibles he is innocent.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:04 am
dyslexia wrote:
Do christian conservatives have wet dreams and if yes, why?


We all know there is no bigger hypocrite than a Christian conservative.

Do they have wet dreams? They don't need to. They satisfy themselves by swapping wives and seducing school girls.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:10 am
Ah, lola, the problem with the left is America is two-fold.


There aren't enough people on the left and there never were. During the 1960s, some people who would normally be apolitical, were sympathetic to the left. Why? Because racism had to be ended. Because the War with Vietnam was unjust.

After Vietnam ended, the sympathisers with the left returned to school and work and began raising families. In other words, they returned to being apolitical. The left grew a little soft.
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