Is debate possible between ignoramuses?How is it possible

hello.......anybody home?

I'm around for just a bit - thought I'd check in on the ignoramii, and lo, what do I find? :wink:

how are you Timber? I'm off to bed.........I'll check back in in the morning. Morning may be late.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah, pillows and blankets sound pretty good about now at this end, too.

timber-

Nice pic.Not seen that before.

I haven't your confidence.She's been biding her time.She certainly isn't done for.In fact She,and her disorder causing tricks,are the principle subject of proper art.Some of the soaps we have here display Her characteristics in full blown living colour.
In some cases She's above the law.And the quality of candidates for high office is seriously affected by Her antics.
I blame votes for women.I agree with Shaw on that.

Hey-8 marines killed yesterday and there's no mention on the news.Instead Blunkett and a wife beating in Outer Mongolia.We're losing it man.


spendius.

Ref-1057251

For timber-whaddgya think Lola has in mind as consisting of a "dirty mind"?

I should have thought she would have included "dimension" in her list if only as a line sinker.

spendius.

Speaking of chicken consciousness, Elusinian Mysteries, magic mushrooms and other fungi found in Barley, dimensions, Whores of Babylon and other locales, Damascus, dirty minds, the survival of Tiamat and dreams..........

Lady Temptress

(Music: Edlund, Petersson; Lyrics: Edlund)



Where would we be in the arts or in living without the continued existence of the scary dragon goddess? There would be no subject interesting enough to motivate anyone.....It all comes down to sex and gratification.

There would Lola-
We could set about inventing Her from scratch and we could then avoid all the unfortunate dispositions She was given previously.
Whether what we came up with would be interesting is another matter but the inventing would be interesting.

Suggestions from threaders required.

spendius.

What? You don't like me the way I am?

Oh no Lola.

I wasn't saying anything like that.I was simply offering a possible answer to your question.If you had asked where would we be with no oxygen in the atmosphere I might have suggested that we would breathe nitrogen.
We have the scary Goddess.Our ex-Home Secretary just collided with one.It happens all the time.But the thought experiment of redesigning women ought to provide threaders with something to chew on I should imagine.We wouldn't mind if you ladies had a go with us.

spendius.

The dangerous scary goddess lives........

Yeah.

I know.Its best to know.I watch these guys who don't know walk straight into the trap.Time and again.It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.And it would be sad if it wasn't so funny.
Somebody said you are dangerous.What was that about?

spendius.

I have a reputation for being naughty, I suppose. And I pretend to be dangerous.

Lola,

I know.You're just a lovely little pussycat that likes a bit of stroking sometimes.
Othertimes you're an intellectual who shoots from the hip.

Its a great combination.

spendius.

Lola I,ve been reading up on other threads where the mysterious name appears.

You sound a bit flash.

Maybe you didn't ought to read Veblen after all.He was good on hats.Put it in a dark cupboard.

Is it possible to be neo-con on one thread and liberal on another,Some of the stuff I've read through on the war is mind boggling.Its armchair warrior stuff.Its like watching fluffy toys trying to punch their way out of a cloud a bath perfume.Have they never heard of Minderbinder?If your Gov't takes any notice of that it must be looped.As if it hadn't thought of it all before and many times too and much else besides.
Be loyal to your democratically elected Gov't.The debate on this one is over for four years.The only experts you have are the experts you have.Let anybody else loose on it and we are on trouser backsides carpets.And they move at random.

spendius.

which other threads have you been reading, dear? Politics, it seems. I can be a bit showy, it's true. But not overly so. And I'm not at all dangerous. :wink: Cinnesthsia was using the term as an endearment, I believe.

And yes, we're stuck with the president we've got for the next four years.......but there's another election in two years and the battle starts now for elections in 2006 and 2008.

Loyal I'll never be in regard to Bush and the neo-cons. They're a dangerous crowd and we're going to have to work harder than ever to get them out of office. Two and four years is not a very long time especially when we have so much to do to get organized. They are bad news.

Have I been inconsistent in my arguments.......neo-con on one thread and liberal on another? Or am I misunderstanding?

Good ole Milo and his M&M Enterprises......sounds like Bush, Cheney and friends to me. Joseph Heller was a great writer. I'm sorry he's gone.

Is debate possible between ignoramuses?

Why has my original question been taken as meaning threaders are ignorant.?It requires an over-sensitive nature to think that and such natures do not lend themselves to debate.

There are many ways to divide people into categories and one way is to split them between those people who seemingly have a need to have an explanation of what we are,what we were,what we will be and what for and those who don't have such a need.The former might be labelled Type 1 and the latter Type 2.

Type 2 has a long history in stoicism,epicurianism,cynicism and scientism to name a few.Type 1 also has a long history in supernaturalism,occultism,and a good few of those phenomena to be found under "abnormal" in the thesaurus.Type 2 has tunnel vision relating to curiosity confining itself to the limits of the knowledge it has and specualations based on the possible.Type 1 recognises no limits.
This situation falls out into one in which Type 2s can debate with each other but Type 1s can't because they have as many positions as there are those having them and all they can do is shout at each other which often results in all out war.In the atomic age war is no longer a feasible final solution and,it follows,Type 1s are thus superfluous to requirments.
A Type 2 can have a debate with Type 1s because he knows they are all expressing the need mentioned and whatever expression that takes is all the same to him.He seeks to convert them to Type 2 in order that some
progress is then possible which it isn't under Type 1 conditions.
A reasonable example might be a debate between an expert dietician and a Type 1 who only knows what tastes good.Obviously Type 2s can debate all day long without dissension.Dissension is a test for Type 1s.The problem is that Type 1s never understand each other and don't even try to.They are intolerant due to ignorance.The only solution they have is based on the might is right principle.Shouting,rhetorical flourish,fisticuffs and in the last resort battle.
"Ignoramus" in the question means lack of knowledge of the other's position.In that case-is debate possible?Type 2s are fully appraised of the position of others.Hamlet seeks to enlighten Ophelia as to men.

"What should such fellows as I do crawling between heaven and earth?We are arrant knaves,all;believe none of us."

Wouldn't it be better if our Ophelias knew that.They would at least know where they stood.They are totally confused with the rank weeds of bluster,assertion and hypocrisy.Hamlet ain't famous for nothing.

spendius.

We here in the Yukky had an item on our news last night about how cash machine users were being taken to the cleaners.A spokeswoman for the organisation set up to get CM users a better deal began with the words-"We are very concerned blah blah".You could tell just by looking at her that if she got a job with the CM company she could just as easily have said what the lady said on behalf of the CM Co Ltd which was that their procedures were much more transparent to what they used to be.It wasn't mentioned that a dense fog in which you could make out your feet is much more transparent than one in which you can only see your hands.The two ladies,who were very well appointed,could easily have swapped roles.

This sort of thing is now pervading our media.Just who is funding this totally useless and patronising operation.Well-us obviously.Is that work?
Can debate take place in these stupid conditions?Or is it necessary now for the population to be rendered stupid in order to keep the whole capitalist project on the road.If so ARE YOU DOING YOUR BIT?

spendius.

I have a taste for rank weeds and bluster. Assertion is great and hypocrisy is in the eye of the perceiver.

Hamlet was pretty cool except he wasn't able to save himself from himself in the end. I always hate that. Shakespeare was a fine observer of human nature. And he had a way with clear expression. Words, wonderful words.

Do you think he was a type 1 or type 2? And do you suggest that all men are 2s and women 1s? Because I think I see evidence to contradict that conjecture.

Debate with ignoramuses (as you define them above) is impossible. Because, as you note, type ones change the rules to suit themselves and their own ends. coercion is not debate. However it's possible to have a bit of fun with them from time to time. Torture for the fun of it is not a bad consolation prize when one finds debate impossible. As I said on the CPD thread. All one has to do is find what is wanted and refuse to give it. The fact that the torture is enjoyed by the tortured is an added bonus. You see, there are ways to communicate between type 1s and type 2s. However one must have a taste for blood in order to enjoy such pleasures. But the blood is so freely offered......since type ones are always climbing onto one cross or another. (as in your example of the self appointed cash machine users advocate.) I for one love the taste of type 1 blood. Yum........

As I said already, it's the booby prize.......but it's not half bad when it's all you can get.

Still, one can't live on type 1 blood alone.........so I moved to Manhattan.

Is the debate about relevent facts ?

Could be all them or not ?