Re: From Paul's letter to the Colossians
A-glow wrote:
[ Abid wrote : 2 = Why do you believe what Paul said to be 'Gospel'? ]
Answer: I believe the Holy Bible to be the Inspired Word of God,
to be read, and understood spiritually, by the Divine help of
Holy spirit.
I do not argue this, I only hope to spread the Hope of Christ to
all who will seek Him.
Thank you for reading and responding
Thanks to all who read and respond
glowing for Jesus
Thats very good and we should all strive to live our lives as close to that of the prophets as we can.
But to say that its Ok to follow a tainted version is OK, because im sure the jist of is there makes me wonder, how can you be sure the 'jist' has not been altered beyond recognition.
I.e worshiping an apostle or messenger/slave/servent/prophet of the almighty (i.e Jesus)
This Comforter A.K.A. the Holy Spirit could actually be Muhammed (peace be with him).
For centuries, based on the King James' Version, Christendom has translated "Paraclete" as "the Comforter" though that is not precisely what "Paraclete" means. Even so, "Comforter" would be an acceptable title for the one who is the Mercy of all creatures. What "Paraclete" means, though, is an advocate, one who pleads the cause of another, one who counsels or advises. The word points to one who would be an advocate for and counselor to mankind, who, as the Qur'an puts it, would be harisun alaikum, ?'solicitous for your welfare'. (Likewise, in English "solicitor" is synonymous with "advocate" in the legal sense). Another indication which acts as a safeguard for the true meaning of these verses is that the "Paraclete" is also given the title "Spirit of Truth" (Greek to pneuma tees aleetheais ). This is clear when one realizes that in New Testament Greek, pneuma can mean "possessor of a spiritual communication", i.e., an inspired person , as well as a "spirit" per se. (A Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament, by Rev. Thomas S. Green). Thus, to pneuma tees aleetheais "the inspired truthful one", means that the "Paraclete" would be so truthful and trustworthy in discharging his responsibilities to the Divine Revelation that "the Truthful" or "the Trustworthy" would be identifying titles for him. The Greek aleetheais corresponds exactly with the Arabic Amin, and "Al-Amin", "the Trustworthy", which was an early title of Mohammed, peace be upon him.
Some hasty editor was not satisfied with the expression "spirit of truth", or did not understand it, and assumed that this must be the same as the "Holy Spirit". The words at John 14:26 which identify the "Paraclete" as the Holy Spirit are the result of this. Such words are found nowhere else and are obviously an addition to the text. Yet, this premature interpretation, unsound textually, is the one generally acceptable by the Church for explaining who the "Paraclete" is! But Jesus has spoken of someone who would dwell physically with mankind, advising and counseling them, in effect, "pleading their case" with God and showing them the sure way of return, by adherence to the truth, to the Divine Judge. He was not someone who was already present, but someone yet to come. As for the Holy Spirit, the angel of revelation, his presence was already manifest. David knew him, and asked God, "take not Thy holy spirit for me." (Psalms 51:11). The holy spirit was present already during the ministry of Jesus, a fact which the New Testament acknowledges abundantly (cf. Matthew 3:16,17; 12:27-33, etc.). It would have been ridiculous and redundant for Jesus to speak of the future coming (?'He shall/will give you . . .') of what presently existed.
Jesus points to a fundamental distinction between the "Paraclete" and all other prophets: "that he may abide with you for ever." This is the same as saying: ?'the Last Prophet whose mission has permanence, voiding the need of any additional prophets.' In plain English, Jesus is saying: ?'Look, I must go away soon, my mission among you having been completed. But I will ask our Lord to send for all of you another counselor, the prophet who will stand as your guide until the end of time.'
To prove conclusively that "John" understood the "Paraclete" to be a flesh and blood person, not a disembodied spirit or an angel, in another New Testament book attributed to him (1 John 2:1) he used the same term with reference to Jesus: "We have and advocate (Greek parakleetos, the same word rendered ?'Comforter' earlier) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous". Jesus, as God's messenger, was considered to be a "Paraclete"; the term was thus not understood by early Christians to mean someone supernatural. The fact is that "Paraclete" or "Counselor" or "Advocate" refers to a human being, an inspired person - which is a legitimate meaning of pneuma - not a "spirit" per se. In practical terms, the meaning of "Paraclete" is nearly synonymous with "prophet", with emphasis on the teaching and counseling aspects of prophethood. If Jesus said ?'another Paraclete' at John 14:16, the significance is ?'another prophet, outstanding for his teaching and counseling.' Furthermore, Jesus qualifies this "Paraclete" by terming him the one to ?'abide . . . for ever', the last or permanent one.
There is yet another possibility for the serious researcher. There are numerous instances in the history of biblical textual transmission wherein words have been added inadvertently to the Hebrew and Greek texts; likewise, there are instances wherein words, indeed, complete sentences, have been omitted inadvertently from those texts by copyists, especially where the letters of the omitted word were similar to another word which preceded or followed it. In the ancient texts, the letters were all run together, without spacing, so that Jesus' words at John 14:16 would have looked like this in the Greek text:
KAIEGOEROOTEESOOTONPATERAKAIALLONPARAKLEETONDOOSEI MIN.
Later, words were spaced so that we have:
KAI EGO EROOTEESOO TON PATERA KAI ALLON PARAKLEETON DOOSEI UMIN.
(And I will ask the father, and he will give you another Paraclete.)
The point is that the received Greek text's "Paraclete" may not be a corruption of "Periclyte". The original text might well have contained both words, but one became omitted in later copying because of being so close in position and in spelling to the other. Only further research can resolve the matter, but it is quite possible that what Jesus said originally was along these lines:
"I will request our Lord, and He will send you another Counselor, the Praised One, who will be permanent for you until the end of time."
This is not entirely hypothetical; it has actually happened with other words and sentences of
the Greek New Testament.
Nevertheless, there is no one else in all of history that John 14:16 et seq. could refer to but Mohammed bin Abdullah, peace be upon him. Christians admit that these verses do not refer to Jesus himself, and the premature identification of the "Paraclete" with the Holy Spirit is untenable in view of other verses of the Bible. Further, no one else has come as a prophet giving due recognition to the mission of Jesus ("He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine . . .") (John 16:14). No one else has led mankind into "all truth" (John 16:13). Only one man has received God's Revelation since the time of Jesus, and only one man stands as Counselor and Advocate ("Paraclete") for mankind for all the ages to come, Praised ("Periclyte") by God and some 1000 millions of the human family.
To state that the early Christians did not consider Jesus to be a supernatural person is simply preposterous.
In addition, Jesus referred again and again to the Holy Spirit which He would give to the disciples. The disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem for this to happen.
To suppose that this refers to the life of Mohammed is to claim that Jesus was really asking those disciples to remain alive in Jerusalem for hundreds of years until Mohammed would be born.
real life wrote:To state that the early Christians did not consider Jesus to be a supernatural person is simply preposterous.
In addition, Jesus referred again and again to the Holy Spirit which He would give to the disciples. The disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem for this to happen.
To suppose that this refers to the life of Mohammed is to claim that Jesus was really asking those disciples to remain alive in Jerusalem for hundreds of years until Mohammed would be born.
Hey, its just a theory.
Here is another one...
There are other people who have been filled with the Holy Ghost? Are they also divine? Look at Acts 11:24: "For he [Barnabas] was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith; and many people were added unto the Lord" and Acts 5:32: "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." You should also read Acts 6:5; II Peter 1:21; II Timothy 1:14; ICorinthians 2:16; Luke 1:41.
Also why is Elijah not considered as the son of god or divine when he performed many miracles similar to that of Jesus?
II Kings 5:14, 6:17-18, 17:22, 13:21
What or where is your evidence to support this claim of divinity?
real life wrote:To state that the early Christians did not consider Jesus to be a supernatural person is...
a fact. Jesus declared God by a show of hands at the Council of Nicea, 325 AD I understand.
Steve 41oo wrote:real life wrote:To state that the early Christians did not consider Jesus to be a supernatural person is...
a fact. Jesus declared God by a show of hands at the Council of Nicea, 325 AD I understand.
The New Testament AND the writings of the early Church Fathers are filled with statements regarding the Church's belief that Jesus is God.
So you understand incorrectly.
Abid wrote:real life wrote:To state that the early Christians did not consider Jesus to be a supernatural person is simply preposterous.
In addition, Jesus referred again and again to the Holy Spirit which He would give to the disciples. The disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem for this to happen.
To suppose that this refers to the life of Mohammed is to claim that Jesus was really asking those disciples to remain alive in Jerusalem for hundreds of years until Mohammed would be born.
Hey, its just a theory.
Here is another one...
There are other people who have been filled with the Holy Ghost? Are they also divine? Look at Acts 11:24: "For he [Barnabas] was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith; and many people were added unto the Lord" and Acts 5:32: "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." You should also read Acts 6:5; II Peter 1:21; II Timothy 1:14; ICorinthians 2:16; Luke 1:41.
Also why is Elijah not considered as the son of god or divine when he performed many miracles similar to that of Jesus?
II Kings 5:14, 6:17-18, 17:22, 13:21
What or where is your evidence to support this claim of divinity?
In a word -- No.
To be 'filled with the Holy Spirit' is not to 'become divine'.
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9
If Jesus was God
Why did he ask why he had been forsaken on the cross?
Why did he not know the date of judgement day?
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9
If Jesus was God
Why did he ask why he had been forsaken on the cross?
Why did he not know the date of judgement day?
OK where are your quotes that state Isa (Jesus) is God?
Why do the christians living in Syria who still speak Arameic not believe in Isa's (as) divinity?
Quotables from good authors:
Temptation doesn't come from God but from within...It's not God...
Satan, his demons, or even the world's evil system that entice us to sin...it is our lustful nature.
Our flesh, our fallen nature, has a desire for evil, even though we've been redeemed and have received a new nature, we still have an enemy within. The resident passion of the flesh, not God, is responsible for our being tempted to sin.
John McArthur-- From TRUTH FOR TODAY
It must be the settled purpose of your heart to will nothing, design nothing, do nothing, but so far as there is reason to believe that it is the will of God.
It is as great rebellion against God to think that your will may ever rightly differ from His as it would be to boast in His universe that you have not received the power of willing from Him...
To think that you are your own, or at your own disposal, is as absurd as to think that you created yourself.
William Law---- THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.
real life wrote:Steve 41oo wrote:real life wrote:To state that the early Christians did not consider Jesus to be a supernatural person is...
a fact. Jesus declared God by a show of hands at the Council of Nicea, 325 AD I understand.
The New Testament AND the writings of the early Church Fathers are filled with statements regarding the Church's belief that Jesus is God.
So you understand incorrectly.
So what was the Council of Nicea all about? Just a freebee? Or was it something to do with the Arian heresey? To put to bed the idea that Jesus was less than the Father, was man not of the same substance as God? The idea that Jesus was man not God was defeated by a show of hands, so establishing officially for the first time his divinity.
Wikipedia wrote:The Council declared that the Father and the Son are of the same substance and are co-eternal, basing the declaration in the claim that this was a formulation of traditional Christian belief handed down from the Apostles. This belief was expressed in the Nicene Creed.
In what way was my understanding incorrect?
A-glow wrote:Quotables from good authors:
Temptation doesn't come from God but from within...It's not God...
Satan, his demons, or even the world's evil system that entice us to sin...it is our lustful nature.
Our flesh, our fallen nature, has a desire for evil, even though we've been redeemed and have received a new nature, we still have an enemy within. The resident passion of the flesh, not God, is responsible for our being tempted to sin.
John McArthur-- From TRUTH FOR TODAY
It must be the settled purpose of your heart to will nothing, design nothing, do nothing, but so far as there is reason to believe that it is the will of God.
It is as great rebellion against God to think that your will may ever rightly differ from His as it would be to boast in His universe that you have not received the power of willing from Him...
To think that you are your own, or at your own disposal, is as absurd as to think that you created yourself.
William Law---- THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.
Nice but where in the bible does it say that Jesus is the son of God?
a-glow, I don't know what else you are doing, but you've certainly joined the group here in our fights and arguments. Why are you different?
Hebrews 13
1 Keep on loving one another as Christians.
2 Remember to welcome strangers in your homes. There were some who did that and welcomed angels without knowing it.
3 Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them. Remember those who are suffering, as though you were suffering as they are.
4 Marriage is to be honored by all, and husbands and wives must be faithful to each other. God will judge those who are immoral and those who commit adultery.
5 Keep your lives free from the love of money, and be satisfied with what you have. For God has said, "I will never leave you; I will never abandon you."
6 Let us be bold, then, and say,
"The Lord is my helper,
I will not be afraid.
What can anyone do to me?"
Proverbs 9
7. If you correct conceited people, you will only be insulted. If you reprimand evil people, you will only get hurt.
8. Never correct conceited people; they will hate you for it. But if you correct the wise, they will respect you.
9. Anything you say to the wise will make them wiser. Whatever you tell the righteous will add to their knowledge.
10. To be wise you must first have reverence for the LORD. If you know the Holy One, you have understanding.
11. Wisdom will add years to your life.
12. You are the one who will profit if you have wisdom, and if you reject it, you are the one who will suffer.
More wisdom:
Proverbs 10 Good News Translation
27 Obey the LORD, and you will live longer. The wicked die before their time.
28 The hopes of good people lead to joy, but wicked people can look forward to nothing.
29 The LORD protects honest people, but destroys those who do wrong.
30 Righteous people will always have security, but the wicked will not survive in the land.
31 Righteous people speak wisdom, but the tongue that speaks evil will be stopped.
32 Righteous people know the kind thing to say, but the wicked are always saying things that hurt.
Abid wrote:A-glow wrote:Quotables from good authors:
Temptation doesn't come from God but from within...It's not God...
Satan, his demons, or even the world's evil system that entice us to sin...it is our lustful nature.
Our flesh, our fallen nature, has a desire for evil, even though we've been redeemed and have received a new nature, we still have an enemy within. The resident passion of the flesh, not God, is responsible for our being tempted to sin.
John McArthur-- From TRUTH FOR TODAY
It must be the settled purpose of your heart to will nothing, design nothing, do nothing, but so far as there is reason to believe that it is the will of God.
It is as great rebellion against God to think that your will may ever rightly differ from His as it would be to boast in His universe that you have not received the power of willing from Him...
To think that you are your own, or at your own disposal, is as absurd as to think that you created yourself.
William Law---- THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.
Nice but where in the bible does it say that Jesus is the son of God?
Matthew 27:54
When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"
Mark 1:1
The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Mark 5:7
He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God?
John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Acts 9:20
Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.
