From a disciple of Christ

Eorl wrote:

Each religion (or individual) determines which bits of which scripture should be taken literally, and which bits have "deeper meanings" depending on what they want to justify..............

How is a Christian's decision to interpret the Bible for himself any different from your decision to interpret the Bible for yourself?

You believe parts of the Bible are literal, and parts are not.

So do Christians.

The difference is what parts, but both are reading and deciding for themselves.

You seem to think it's ok for you to do so, but not ok for anyone who reaches a different conclusion than you do.

Why is that?

Eorl wrote:

The bible and it's use is 100% semantics. To decide to "believe it" is to give yourself permission to decide for yourself what good and evil is, or to let others tell you. It's dangerous self-deception. But as you say...to each, their own.

You have given yourself permission to decide what good and evil is, haven't you?

But for others, doing so is self deception and dangerous, eh?

There's a word for that, isn't there Eorl?

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real life wrote:

You have given yourself permission to decide what good and evil is, haven't you?

Yes, I have. The difference is that I am aware of having done so. I don't try to lay the blame for my moral choices elsewhere.

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Why is it ok for you to do so, but not for others to do so?

How do you justify your double standard?

You are allowed to decide for yourself what you think the Bible means and what is right and wrong, but you condemn others for doing the same.

'I am aware of what I am doing' you reply. Is it just that you see yourself as smarter than everybody else who doesn't hold your POV?

How is this conceit any proof of your correctness?

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It's true that everyone interprets the Bible in a different manner. That is one of the main reasons I don't believe an all-knowing God would be so stupid as to write or inspire such a document.

As for God's behavior it should be evident that he is a psychotic homicidal maniac. He enjoys killing children. He has such a vile temper that he wants to rip fetuses from womens bellies. He kill innocent children for the behavior of others. He approved of the slaughter of a whole tribe, except the ten to twelve year old virgins whom he gave to his soldiers. He kills, persecutes and punishes people because of their religious beliefs. We see that in both Testaments. He is jealous, vain, vengeful and selfish.

Yet this is the model that we are suppose to pattern ourselves after because he is perfect in every way. Killing humans is the solution to all of his problems yet he is suppose to love us.

Why is it we are suppose to live under a standard God himself is incapable of maintaining? Why are we considered evil and imperfect but a God that kills and kills innocent people is pure and perfect? If God can't live up the standards he imposes on us or we impose upon ourselves than He is a false God, a manmade creature; an image of those who created him.

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Funny, but so many will throw away the teachings of Jesus and the Beatitudes and THE NEW COVENANT! Falling back to the old testament and it's punishments and the laws are just a way of justifying not doing what God wants us to do. Plain and simple. Blame it on a meany God who punished those that went against Him. Fascinating. Shocked

This is a plain and simple fact. HE IS GOD. WE AIN'T. He provided a New Covenant without the old punishments, etc., and what? That ain't good enough for you (general)? Well, I don't know what to tell you except He's God and you aren't. Laughing

(Caps are only meant for emphasis and nothing else.)

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real life wrote:

Why is it ok for you to do so, but not for others to do so?

How do you justify your double standard?

You are allowed to decide for yourself what you think the Bible means and what is right and wrong, but you condemn others for doing the same.

'I am aware of what I am doing' you reply. Is it just that you see yourself as smarter than everybody else who doesn't hold your POV?

How is this conceit any proof of your correctness?

I don't think I'm advocating a double standard. I'm advocating the danger of deluding yourself into allowing others to define your morals. The Reverend Jim Jones leaps to mind.

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Come on Eorl.

Bacon butties, hot baths, holidays, pots of ale, feather beds and voluptuous women leap to my mind. The Rev was just a passing news item.

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Eorl wrote:

real life wrote:
Why is it ok for you to do so, but not for others to do so?

How do you justify your double standard?

You are allowed to decide for yourself what you think the Bible means and what is right and wrong, but you condemn others for doing the same.

'I am aware of what I am doing' you reply. Is it just that you see yourself as smarter than everybody else who doesn't hold your POV?

How is this conceit any proof of your correctness?

I don't think I'm advocating a double standard. I'm advocating the danger of deluding yourself into allowing others to define your morals. The Reverend Jim Jones leaps to mind.

You are kidding no one but yourself.

The positions that you now hold regarding the existence of God, and regarding morality are all positions that you heard or read someone else expound and advocate, are they not?

None of them are original with you.

Your pretense that Christians are all lead around by the nose, while you, the 'freethinker', come to your positions in a vacuum is hilarious.

We have already seen on other threads that 'freethinkers' have seminars to tell them what to think and what to say:

Quote:

How to Answer Theist Arguments
A seminar series for atheists and freethinkers

A seminar series for atheists, freethinkers and their guests sponsored by the Boulder Atheists, Atheists and Freethinkers of Denver, Freeethinkers of Colorado Springs, and Atheists of Northern Colorado is now complete. The goal of the series was to provide nonbelievers with arguments, on a high intellectual plane, that can be use to counter the standard arguments of believers. These counter arguments could be used in personal conversations with theists or in writing thoughtful letters to the editor. ............

from http://www.able2know.com/forums/about92410.html&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=freethinker&start=0

I find it absolutely hilarious that the label 'freethinker' is spoken with a straight face.

Your double standard is so obvious. 'Christians take it upon themselves to decide what is right and wrong, and how to interpret and understand the Bible. How awful.' And you do the same thing.

You want to cite Jim Jones. Shall I cite prominent atheists who have massacred their own followers? Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot.........all infamous atheist dictators who caused the deaths of millions. And who still to this day receive kid glove treatment from some atheist apologists.

C'mon Eorl. Wake up and smell the blood in the atheist camp.

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Arella Mae wrote:

Funny, but so many will throw away the teachings of Jesus and the Beatitudes and THE NEW COVENANT! Falling back to the old testament and it's punishments and the laws are just a way of justifying not doing what God wants us to do. Plain and simple. Blame it on a meany God who punished those that went against Him. Fascinating.

This is a plain and simple fact. HE IS GOD. WE AIN'T. He provided a New Covenant without the old punishments, etc., and what? That ain't good enough for you (general)? Well, I don't know what to tell you except He's God and you aren't. (Caps are only meant for emphasis and nothing else.)

Your God is just as evil in the NT as the Old. The solution for your God's problems are still the same, kill them all.

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xingu wrote:

Your God is just as evil in the NT as the Old. The solution for your God's problems are still the same, kill them all.

Oh really? Hmmm, ever read The Beatitudes? Matthew 5. Seems to me Jesus doesn't call for the death of anyone, quite the opposite.

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You're deliberately missing the point as usual, rl. We are talking about what we know to be the source of our morality. Mine is me. So is yours, but you delude yourself into believing otherwise.

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Happy is the person God corrects
Job 5

17 Happy is the person whom God corrects!
Do not resent it when he rebukes you.

18 God bandages the wounds he makes;
his hand hurts you, and his hand heals.

19 Time after time he will save you from harm;

20 when famine comes, he will keep you alive,
and in war protect you from death.

21 God will rescue you from slander;
he will save you when destruction comes.

22 You will laugh at violence and hunger
and not be afraid of wild animals.

23 The fields you plow will be free of rocks;
wild animals will never attack you.

24 Then you will live at peace in your tent;
when you look at your sheep, you will find them safe.

25 You will have as many children
as there are blades of grass in a pasture.

26 Like wheat that ripens till harvest time,
you will live to a ripe old age.

27 Job, we have learned this by long study.
It is true, so now accept it.

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Good News Translation

1 Corinthians 6

12Someone will say, "I am allowed to do anything." Yes; but not everything is good for you. I could say that I am allowed to do anything, but I am not going to let anything make me its slave.

13Someone else will say, "Food is for the stomach, and the stomach is for food." Yes; but God will put an end to both. The body is not to be used for sexual immorality, but to serve the Lord; and the Lord provides for the body.
14God raised the Lord from death, and he will also raise us by his power.

15You know that your bodies are parts of the body of Christ. Shall I take a part of Christ's body and make it part of the body of a prostitute? Impossible!

16Or perhaps you don't know that the man who joins his body to a prostitute becomes physically one with her? The scripture says quite plainly, "The two will become one body."

17But he who joins himself to the Lord becomes spiritually one with him.

18Avoid immorality. Any other sin a man commits does not affect his body; but the man who is guilty of sexual immorality sins against his own body.

19Don't you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and who was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourselves but to God;

20he bought you for a price. So use your bodies for God's glory.

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1 Corinthians 15

35 Someone will ask, "How can the dead be raised to life? What kind of body will they have?"

36 You foolish man! When you plant a seed in the ground, it does not sprout to life unless it dies.

37 And what you plant is a bare seed, perhaps a grain of wheat or some
other grain, not the full-bodied plant that will later grow up.

38 God provides that seed with the body he wishes; he gives each seed its own proper body.

39 And the flesh of living beings is not all the same kind of flesh; human beings have one kind of flesh, animals another, birds another, and fish another.

40 And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different from the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies.

41 The sun has its own beauty, the moon another beauty, and the stars a different beauty; and even among stars there are different kinds of beauty.

42 This is how it will be when the dead are raised to life. When the body is buried, it is mortal; when raised, it will be immortal.

43 When buried, it is ugly and weak; when raised, it will be beautiful and strong.

44 When buried, it is a physical body; when raised, it will be a spiritual body. There is, of course, a physical body, so there has to be a spiritual body.

45 For the scripture says, "The first man, Adam, was created a living being"; but the last Adam is the life-giving Spirit.

46 It is not the spiritual that comes first, but the physical, and then the spiritual.

47 The first Adam, made of earth, came from the earth; the second Adam came from heaven.

48 Those who belong to the earth are like the one who was made of earth; those who are of heaven are like the one who came from heaven.
49 Just as we wear the likeness of the man made of earth, so we will wear the likeness of the Man from heaven.

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Do not be offensive
Even when certain people do not wish to serve God, nor believe Jesus Christ died to save them from eternal death,

Shouldn't they respect human life enough to leave the worshipper alone?
As they have prayed to the Father, In Jesus Name to be all God wants them to be, and they pray every day.

Why do unbelievers go out of their way to 'harass' them, and to try to hurt them? It is so sad and should not happen.

If you do not believe and want to share Jesus, please go another way and do not bother a Christians efforts. Please.

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xingu wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
Funny, but so many will throw away the teachings of Jesus and the Beatitudes and THE NEW COVENANT! Falling back to the old testament and it's punishments and the laws are just a way of justifying not doing what God wants us to do. Plain and simple. Blame it on a meany God who punished those that went against Him. Fascinating.

This is a plain and simple fact. HE IS GOD. WE AIN'T. He provided a New Covenant without the old punishments, etc., and what? That ain't good enough for you (general)? Well, I don't know what to tell you except He's God and you aren't. (Caps are only meant for emphasis and nothing else.)

Your God is just as evil in the NT as the Old. The solution for your God's problems are still the same, kill them all.

The expression "kill them all" was once used by Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson (Confederate Civil War General) when asked how to end the war between the states. He was a "gun totin / Bible quotin" type that had a totally wrong view of God, Christianity and Bible teaching. Great General though and admired by many.

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xingu wrote:

It's true that everyone interprets the Bible in a different manner. That is one of the main reasons I don't believe an all-knowing God would be so stupid as to write or inspire such a document.

As for God's behavior it should be evident that he is a psychotic homicidal maniac. He enjoys killing children. He has such a vile temper that he wants to rip fetuses from womens bellies. He kill innocent children for the behavior of others. He approved of the slaughter of a whole tribe, except the ten to twelve year old virgins whom he gave to his soldiers. He kills, persecutes and punishes people because of their religious beliefs. We see that in both Testaments. He is jealous, vain, vengeful and selfish.

Yet this is the model that we are suppose to pattern ourselves after because he is perfect in every way. Killing humans is the solution to all of his problems yet he is suppose to love us.

Why is it we are suppose to live under a standard God himself is incapable of maintaining? Why are we considered evil and imperfect but a God that kills and kills innocent people is pure and perfect? If God can't live up the standards he imposes on us or we impose upon ourselves than He is a false God, a manmade creature; an image of those who created him.

You definitely described the god mentioned at 2 Corinthians 4:4. The one with the "rule or ruin" philosophy you described above. (Revelation 12:9, 12) The god who is totally opposed to the God who authored the Bible.

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Psalm of praise
Psalm 146 Praise the LORD!

Praise the LORD, my soul!

2 I will praise him as long as I live;
I will sing to my God all my life.

3 Don't put your trust in human leaders;
no human being can save you.

4 When they die, they return to the dust;
on that day all their plans come to an end.

5 Happy are those who have the God of Jacob to help them
and who depend on the LORD their God,

6 the Creator of heaven, earth, and sea,
and all that is in them.
He always keeps his promises;

7 he judges in favor of the oppressed
and gives food to the hungry.
The LORD sets prisoners free

8 and gives sight to the blind.
He lifts those who have fallen;
he loves his righteous people.

9 He protects the strangers who live in our land;
he helps widows and orphans,
but takes the wicked to their ruin.

10 The LORD is king forever.

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Led by the Holy Spirit
Galatians 5
16 What I say is this: let the Spirit direct your lives, and you will not satisfy the desires of the human nature.

17 For what our human nature wants is opposed to what the Spirit wants, and what the Spirit wants is opposed to what our human nature wants. These two are enemies, and this means that you cannot do what you want to do.

18 If the Spirit leads you, then you are not subject to the Law.

19 What human nature does is quite plain. It shows itself in immoral, filthy, and indecent actions;

20 in worship of idols and witchcraft. People become enemies and they fight; they become jealous, angry, and ambitious. They separate into parties and groups;

21 they are envious, get drunk, have orgies, and do other things like these. I warn you now as I have before: those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God.

22 But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23 humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these.

24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have put to death their human nature with all its passions and desires.

25 The Spirit has given us life; he must also control our lives.

(A-glow's note: It takes a long time to be perfected in the resolve to
put to death the passions and desires of flesh. We eat too much, we drink
too much, we indulge in pleasures of the world until we are so lost, that when we feel God's presence wooing us to come home to him, we have a hard time getting out of the midst of immorality.
But I never give up. I ask any of you seeking God and searching with a pure heart... DO NOT GIVE UP. God has ALL the power. Your enemy
likes to make you believe he has power, but it is a temporary sham.
I pray for you to keep moving forward. You will make it AND YOU WILL
BE REWARDED. God Bless you.)

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Re: Do not be offensive

A-glow wrote:

Even when certain people do not wish to serve God, nor believe Jesus Christ died to save them from eternal death,

Shouldn't they respect human life enough to leave the worshipper alone?
As they have prayed to the Father, In Jesus Name to be all God wants them to be, and they pray every day.

Why do unbelievers go out of their way to 'harass' them, and to try to hurt them? It is so sad and should not happen.

If you do not believe and want to share Jesus, please go another way and do not bother a Christians efforts. Please.

So, let me get this straight. You post a thread here on these forums for people to read, but the moment they ask you questions regarding your belief and the nature of these posts that you can't answer and show that you have some rather inconsistent beliefs, you call it harrassment.

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From a disciple of Christ

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