26
   

Special Counsel for Russia Election Interference: Robert Mueller.

 
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 08:58 am
@Real Music,
(I"ll probably post this on the Trump thread but..)

Quote:
Can Mueller be fired?

Yes, but not by the president, at least not directly. Only the acting attorney general — in this case, Rosenstein — can discipline or fire a special counsel, and then only for cause. According to the federal code, “The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies.” The president can, however, fire the deputy attorney general.


Fact Check
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 12:55 pm
@farmerman,
I don't see Trump making an effort to have Mueller fired. Ruddy was probably asked to float it as a trial balloon, rather than Trump doing it himself with a tweet.

While firing anyone over which he holds that authority is not an admission of guilt about anything, the "optics" would be disastrous if Trump ordered Rosenstein to fire Mueller and then fired Rosenstein for refusing. It killed Nixon and it would kill him. I think his personal lawyers would try and drug him and hide him in the attic if they got wind that he was up to such a thing.

Having said this one has to wonder why (if it's true and I've not confirmed that it is) Mueller would hire a staff filled only with people who can be shown to have contributed to Obama and Clinton? Here again, it doesn't mean any of them can't be impartial, but the "optics" are not good.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 03:07 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
and supplant them with GOP witchhunts??

The Republicans have only engaged in witch hunts as retaliation for Democratic witch hunts, as self defense to get the Democrats to back off.

If this witch hunt against Trump goes on for much longer, the Republicans will certainly retaliate by saddling future Democratic presidents with witch hunts (and rightly so).

But if we can nip this thing in the bud perhaps the Republicans will not be so inclined to retaliate.


farmerman wrote:
The Sente Majority leader stated that, should Trump fire Mueller, the Senate qould rehire him an the entire investigation would iden significantly.
Sounds like the Senate is finding its balls, (besides that pitiful dog and pony show at yesterdays "Cabinet News Brief")

To my knowledge the only person who has said such a thing is a powerless Democrat.

Unlikely that a Republican controlled Congress would enable such a witch hunt.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 03:08 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
(I"ll probably post this on the Trump thread but..)
Quote:
Can Mueller be fired?

Yes, but not by the president, at least not directly. Only the acting attorney general — in this case, Rosenstein — can discipline or fire a special counsel, and then only for cause. According to the federal code, “The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies.” The president can, however, fire the deputy attorney general.
Fact Check

Actually Trump can abolish the entire Office of the Special Council with a single executive order.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 03:10 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I don't see Trump making an effort to have Mueller fired. Ruddy was probably asked to float it as a trial balloon, rather than Trump doing it himself with a tweet.

While firing anyone over which he holds that authority is not an admission of guilt about anything, the "optics" would be disastrous if Trump ordered Rosenstein to fire Mueller and then fired Rosenstein for refusing. It killed Nixon and it would kill him. I think his personal lawyers would try and drug him and hide him in the attic if they got wind that he was up to such a thing.

I don't see the problem. The Democrats would throw a tantrum, but it is easy enough to ignore their tantrums.


Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Having said this one has to wonder why (if it's true and I've not confirmed that it is) Mueller would hire a staff filled only with people who can be shown to have contributed to Obama and Clinton? Here again, it doesn't mean any of them can't be impartial, but the "optics" are not good.

The special prosecutor is going to prosecute members of the Trump administration for any minor offense they can find. And will even try to concoct fake charges against innocent people.

It is reasonable for Trump to put a stop to that.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 04:06 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:


I don't see the problem. The Democrats would throw a tantrum, but it is easy enough to ignore their tantrums.


The American people would, rightly or wrongly, see it as an admission of guilt



Quote:
The special prosecutor is going to prosecute members of the Trump administration for any minor offense they can find. And will even try to concoct fake charges against innocent people.

It is reasonable for Trump to put a stop to that.


Now you are drawing conclusions that aren't based in fact. You don't know yet what Mueller and his team will do. If they embark on a head hunting mission I think that will soon reveal itself and there will be time enough for Trump to decide how to deal with it.

Right now there is no evidence of what you have concluded, which is not to say you may not be proven correct in the future, but attempting to have Mueller fired based on his staff selection would be a colossal mistake.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 05:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
The American people would, rightly or wrongly, see it as an admission of guilt

I think it could be effectively argued that such special prosecutors are abusive and this was a witch hunt.


Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Now you are drawing conclusions that aren't based in fact. You don't know yet what Mueller and his team will do. If they embark on a head hunting mission I think that will soon reveal itself and there will be time enough for Trump to decide how to deal with it.

Right now there is no evidence of what you have concluded, which is not to say you may not be proven correct in the future, but attempting to have Mueller fired based on his staff selection would be a colossal mistake.

I'm OK with waiting for Muller to show his hand as a witch hunter before firing him.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 06:31 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I think it could be effectively argued that such special prosecutors are abusive and this was a witch hunt
Somebody give you a time machine for Christmas?? How you know all this **** when were spending good bucks on a whole lot of investigations by people waaay more savvy in the law than you make believe.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 07:09 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Somebody give you a time machine for Christmas?? How you know all this **** when were spending good bucks on a whole lot of investigations by people waaay more savvy in the law than you make believe.

I've paid attention in the past when Democrats have used special prosecutors to harm innocent people. I know how they work.

And I am also aware of the evidence that has already been reported on, which makes it very clear that Trump has done nothing wrong.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 07:58 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I've paid attention in the past when Democrats have used special prosecutors to harm innocent people. I know how they work.


Rank partisans with no evidence are not to be trusted.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 08:14 pm
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/13/trump-mueller-firing-huckabee-sanders-239527
Quote:
President Donald Trump has "no intention" of firing special prosecutor Robert Mueller, White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Tuesday night.

"While the president has the right to, he has no intention to do so," Sanders said when asked whether Trump will fire Mueller during a gaggle aboard Air Force One.

Sanders' remarks — which came after more than a day of Trump surrogates floating Mueller's ouster — marked the first time the White House has made a clear statement about the special counsel's status.

Trump can't technically fire Mueller on his own. But he could order the attorney general to do so. However, because Attorney General Jeff Sessions has recused himself from the Russia investigation, Trump would have to order Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to fire Mueller.

In recent days, Trump surrogates have floated the idea that the president would fire Mueller and have questioned his ability to fairly do his job.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 08:58 pm
@Real Music,
Trump could change her mind in a heartbeat.

Say, I just saw an article saying Trump thinks the healthcare reform passed by the House is 'mean', and he's hoping the Senate version will be a lot nicer. How's that for consistency?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:36 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
time machine


I know you've got dodgy spelling because of your bad hand, but that doesn't look anything like lobotomy.
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 07:06 am
@Real Music,
Well, according to this NYT piece, Trump pondered firing Mueller but his aides pushed him back from it. Apparently he was upset by the reports from Breitbart News and other conservative media about how close Comey and Mueller are.

Trump Pondered Firing Mueller; His Aides Pushed Back
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  7  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 05:34 pm
And here we go: now Trump himself is under investigation, examining whether he attempted to obstruct justice

Quote:
Special counsel is investigating Trump for possible obstruction of justice, officials say

The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.

The move by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.

Trump had received private assurances from then-FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing.

Five people briefed on the requests, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly, said Daniel Coats, the current director of national intelligence, Mike Rogers, head of the National Security Agency, and Rogers’s recently departed deputy, Richard Ledgett, agreed to be interviewed by Mueller’s investigators as early as this week. The investigation has been cloaked in secrecy, and it is unclear how many others have been questioned by the FBI.

The NSA said in statement that it will “fully cooperate with the special counsel” and declined to comment further. The office of the director of national intelligence and Ledgett declined to comment.

[...]

The obstruction-of-justice investigation of the president began days after Comey was fired on May 9, according to people familiar with the matter. Mueller’s office has now taken up that work, and the preliminary interviews scheduled with intelligence officials indicate his team is actively pursuing potential witnesses inside and outside the government.

The interviews suggest Mueller sees the question of attempted obstruction of justice as more than just a “he said, he said” dispute between the president and the fired FBI director, an official said.


[...]

oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 06:54 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:
And here we go: now Trump himself is under investigation, examining whether he attempted to obstruct justice

It is hardly obstruction of justice for an official to use his discretion and decide not to pursue a case.

Enough is enough. We need to fire this special prosecutor thug and directly outlaw the Democratic Party in America.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 09:53 pm
@old europe,
Well, I can see you accept the comments of unnamed officials familiar with the matter as gospel despite the fact that other such WaPo sources have been proven wrong such as the one who apparently assured a WaPo reporter that DAG Rosenstein threatened to quit due to the White House's initial explanation for Comey's firing. I guess it didn't shake your confidence in these reliable sources when Rosenstein flatly denied he ever threatened to quit...or do you have more trust in unnamed officials familiar with the matter than the actual subject of the allegation?
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 11:51 am
@izzythepush,
I would rather read FM's "dodgy spelling" than read the insulting drivel you post Izzy...

Izzy, does it get your rocks off insulting FM?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 11:57 am
@TheCobbler,
For someone who's supposed to be ignoring me you're doing a lousy job. I know my last post shot over your head, you don't have to tell me that. You don't need to spend any more time showing that you're an idiot, take it as read.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 02:04 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Just curious who is offended by Trump talking about grabbing pussy and not so much by Clinton sticking cigars in there.

Sexual aggression is illegal, consensual sex is legal.
 

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