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Special Counsel for Russia Election Interference: Robert Mueller.

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 09:09 pm
@oralloy,
We disagree on both counts Oralloy.

First of all, you don't know if Trump or anyone on his campaign broke the law or not. Neither do I. That is why we have the special counsel. If it turns out the facts show that Trump did break the law, then it is up to the Republicans to do what is right (that will be very fun to watch).

Second of all, working with foreign agents as part of a presidential election is a big deal. Most Americans don't want Russia to have anything to do with our elections...

layman
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 09:14 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Most Americans don't want Russia to have anything to do with our elections...


If "most americans" is supposed to include those who are bitching 24/7 now, that's a joke. I've never seen one of them utter a peep of objection when Hillary's campaign relied on purported "russian intelligence agents" to compile a bogus "dossier" on Trump which they promptly delivered to virtually every congressman and media outlet in the country.

Not a single peep.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 09:21 pm
@layman,
Most Americans who voted, voted for Hillary Clinton. So that isn't too surprising.
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 09:23 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Most Americans who voted, voted for Hillary Clinton. So that isn't too surprising.


No, it isn't the least bit surprising, but it does tend to show you where the real objections are coming from, and it has nothing to do with "russian involvement" as any kind of general proposition.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 09:42 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
We disagree on both counts Oralloy.
First of all, you don't know if Trump or anyone on his campaign broke the law or not. Neither do I.

Come on. It's pretty obvious.

Flynn and Manafort (I still love that name) failed to register as foreign agents. And that's about the extent of the criminality here.

I don't know if the sun will rise in the morning. But I'm thinking it probably will.


maxdancona wrote:
That is why we have the special counsel.

No. We have a special council because the Democrats want to prosecute people who really shouldn't be prosecuted, because the Democrats like hurting people who disagree with them.


maxdancona wrote:
If it turns out the facts show that Trump did break the law, then it is up to the Republicans to do what is right (that will be very fun to watch).

That's not an IF that we are going to have to worry about.

But if it did happen, post-Clinton you really shouldn't expect Republicans to care about evidence against a Republican president.


maxdancona wrote:
Second of all, working with foreign agents as part of a presidential election is a big deal. Most Americans don't want Russia to have anything to do with our elections...

Come now. The Democrats wanted the Soviets to DEFEAT the United States during the Cold War. And it was just a year or two ago that they were all sneering at Mitt Romney for saying that Putin was a big enemy.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 10:14 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Come on. It's pretty obvious.

Flynn and Manafort (I still love that name) failed to register as foreign agents. And that's about the extent of the criminality here.


It might be obvious to you, Oralloy. But, it isn't obvious to me, or to Rosenstein (the Republican deputy Attorney General chosen by Trump's staff), or to an increasing number of Republicans in Congress or to Comey or to Mueller.

It is that last one that matters most now.

One correction; You do realize that the Democrats aren't in power, right? This special prosecutor was chosen by a Republican appointee with the goal of covering the asses of Republican elected officials. The Democrats wanted this, but they had no way to bring it about. This special counsel is by Republicans for Republicans.

You put a lot of faith in that partisan crystal ball you have. Sure, it worked once... but one correct guess doesn't make a trend. The rest of us don't put faith in crystal balls, which is why we want to see what this investigation turns up before we decide what should happen.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 11:06 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Most Americans who voted, voted for Hillary Clinton. So that isn't too surprising.



Sloppy, max. Most Americans who voted, voted for someone other than Hillary. She just got more votes than anyone else.

Now that Mueller is on the case I hope I can stop hearing about Russia for a while.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 11:38 pm
@maxdancona,
Let's say 6 months down the road that Mueller says they found no collusion between Trump, his administration or anyone on his team and the Russians to make Hillary lose the election, will it be because it all of the evidence was obviously hidden or overlooked, or will it be because Mueller was chosen by the Republicans and therefore could have never been counted on to be fair?

I am curious what the excuse will be when nothing is found. Any predictions?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 12:32 am
@McGentrix,
I think people will be too busy marvelling at the flying pigs and dancing unicorns.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 12:43 am
@Brandon9000,
That's because it's been hampered by Agent Orange. It can only start properly now. There's no evidence on Earth that would you'd accept anyway. If Trump gave Alaska back to the Russians you'd still say he was the best president ever.
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 01:18 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Let's say 6 months down the road that Mueller says they found no collusion between Trump, his administration or anyone on his team and the Russians to make Hillary lose the election, will it be because it all of the evidence was obviously hidden or overlooked, or will it be because Mueller was chosen by the Republicans and therefore could have never been counted on to be fair?

I am curious what the excuse will be when nothing is found. Any predictions?


It will be both, Gent. Pelosi has already said that Mueller isn't "truly independent," so that covers that base. But, like the 9/11 conspiracy theorists continue to assure, the "russian collusion myth" will persist for many years, I figure.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 02:39 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Let's say 6 months down the road that Mueller says they found no collusion between Trump, his administration or anyone on his team and the Russians to make Hillary lose the election, will it be because it all of the evidence was obviously hidden or overlooked, or will it be because Mueller was chosen by the Republicans and therefore could have never been counted on to be fair?

I am curious what the excuse will be when nothing is found. Any predictions?
"That's the wrong answer!"
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 02:44 am
@hawkeye10,
OMG! Welcome back!

Please stay!
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 02:44 am
@layman,
layman wrote:

Quote:
Most Americans don't want Russia to have anything to do with our elections...


If "most americans" is supposed to include those who are bitching 24/7 now, that's a joke. I've never seen one of them utter a peep of objection when Hillary's campaign relied on purported "russian intelligence agents" to compile a bogus "dossier" on Trump which they promptly delivered to virtually every congressman and media outlet in the country.

Not a single peep.
Are you sure about that, cause I heard that it was a #NEVERTRUMPer who contracted out for it....that is to say a Republican.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 02:51 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

OMG! Welcome back!

Please stay!

Hi, its doubtful, I am a well respected fish in a much bigger pond now, but I am learning to never say never. To tell the truth I dont even know why I am here now,...I pushed a link by accident, I was logged in, and the rest is history.

That's one of the things about being Zen and living in the moment, **** happens, I dont always feel in control if this illusion I call me.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 02:58 am
@hawkeye10,
An accident, eh? Welcome back, anyway.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 03:01 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

An accident, eh? Welcome back, anyway.
Well it might be a "High and goodbye" but it is nice to see that you are still kicking.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 03:03 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
It might be obvious to you, Oralloy. But, it isn't obvious to me,

Story of my life. I don't really understand what it like to be a regular smart person, so I can't envision their limitations. Mine is a world where the most difficult of concepts are penetrated without effort.

When this is over you'll find that there was no crime by Trump. There were some minor transgressions by some Flynn and Manafort, which will probably be prosecuted in a horrible abuse of prosecutorial discretion, but no serious transgressions.

Since this investigation is only interested in maliciously harming the Trump administration, there will be no serious investigation of Russian actions or how to better secure future American elections. Any issues that someone who was genuinely concerned about Russian meddling would want to see addressed, will not be paid any attention to at all.


maxdancona wrote:
or to Rosenstein (the Republican deputy Attorney General chosen by Trump's staff),

I expect that his government career is soon to end.

And rightly so. He had an opportunity to do the right thing and stop a lynch mob, and he gave in to pressure and let the lynch mob go forward. That will forever be his shame.

I'm not sympathetic to his plight. He should have done the right thing.


maxdancona wrote:
or to an increasing number of Republicans in Congress or to Comey or to Mueller.
It is that last one that matters most now.

I don't see how it matters much. Mueller may not be able to see the same truths that I can perceive, but ultimately his witch hunt isn't going to be able to find something that isn't there. The only thing that he will be able to do is prosecute minor figures for trivial crimes.


maxdancona wrote:
One correction; You do realize that the Democrats aren't in power, right? This special prosecutor was chosen by a Republican appointee with the goal of covering the asses of Republican elected officials. The Democrats wanted this, but they had no way to bring it about. This special counsel is by Republicans for Republicans.

The Democrats deliberately and maliciously crafted the web of lies and deceit that led to weaker Republicans giving in to their demands for a political witch hunt.


maxdancona wrote:
You put a lot of faith in that partisan crystal ball you have. Sure, it worked once... but one correct guess doesn't make a trend. The rest of us don't put faith in crystal balls, which is why we want to see what this investigation turns up before we decide what should happen.

Not really a crystal ball. More like a logical deduction based on reason.

It is certainly possible that my prediction could be wrong. But it isn't likely.

My faith that I am probably right comes from a lifetime of living within a mind that routinely perceives things like this.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 03:59 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I am a well respected fish in a much bigger pond now, but I am learning to never say never.

It is easy enough to be active on multiple boards. Just bookmark both boards and check both of them now and then.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 04:28 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
There is a general consensus that Russia meddled in the US election. This is a pretty big deal, and no one is seriously contesting this fact (other than Trump and Putin).

We don't know what else they have found so far. Prosecutors generally keep their cards close to the vest until they are ready to charge. What the public knows is that members of Congress in the intelligence committee are taking this seriously.

The big question is whether anyone on the Trump campaign colluded with Russia during the election. Of course we don't know what they have on this yet... but the FBI was certainly taking this question seriously.

Tell me one single improper thing that any member of the Trump team ever said to any Russian person. If you cannot quote, then paraphrase.


Read my post Brandon. I said "The big question is whether anyone on the Trump campaign colluded with Russia during the election." I don't know all the information. There are people who know more than I do (including possibly the FBI investigators).

That is why we now have a special counsel... it is an investigation.


After all this time, not one single, tiny thing has been proven. I think we need an investigation into whether horses are spontaneously transforming into dogs. There isn't a lot of direct evidence yet, but that is what investigations are for.
 

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