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Yasser Arafat Is Dead

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Nov, 2004 03:18 pm
20% of Iraqi citizens are little girls, 14 years old or younger. That's 5 million good reasons to fight for democracy.

Just as a starter you tried that one before.

I pointed out that Iraq was pretty enlightened re women's rights (oddly) and NOT a theocracy before we cae in and chased many into the arms of the mullahs.

And - small difference which obliterates your example, Bill - Iraq is AN OFFENSIVE WAR, an INVASION - not a defensive war.

I don't think even you will still try to allege that Iraq threatened the US? Igive up if you do - there is no chance of a rational discussion - and I am sick of useless gum bumping. Call me Sisyphus - I have a rock to roll...

Please comment on how many innocents we may slaughter in an invasion not sparked by an act of saggression against us. Let's try and keep it simple and truthful, eh?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Nov, 2004 06:45 pm
dlowan wrote:
Bill wrote:
20% of Iraqi citizens are little girls, 14 years old or younger. That's 5 million good reasons to fight for democracy.


Just as a starter you tried that one before.

It's not going to go away, Deb, because it is what I believe.

dlowan wrote:
I pointed out that Iraq was pretty enlightened re women's rights (oddly) and NOT a theocracy before we cae in and chased many into the arms of the mullahs.

I'm sorry, but that argument is just as useless now as it was then. We are already in Iraq. You cannot argue against why we need to finish what we started by saying we shouldn't have started. We don't have a time machine. At this point in time are you suggesting we should pull out? If so, there are 5 million good reasons why you are wrong.

dlowan wrote:
And - small difference which obliterates your example, Bill - Iraq is AN OFFENSIVE WAR, an INVASION - not a defensive war.

You missed my point. I was presenting a hypothetical to show that millions of innocents could be killed and it still wouldn't match the heinousness or culpability of the terrorist's intentionally targeting innocents for murder. You seem to be having trouble keeping that separation. Let's not lose track of where this tangent started. I pointed out Arafat was a ruthless killer and you responded:
dlowan wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Yes - indeed- but, caught up with Israel's own history of terrorism, have we?
Yup, but this thread is about Arafat. Hence the "Israel's guilt or lack thereof notwithstanding" in the original post. :wink:
Hmmm - good try.

I have been toing and froing with the intent thing, you know.

Intent is no minor detail. Your attempts at drawing a parallel between deliberate murder and collateral damage will forever fail. To do so denigrates the actions of too many decent leaders and soldiers alike AND lends undeserved legitimacy to the targeting of civilians for murder (terrorism). It is wrong on both counts. You can effectively argue that civilian losses may outweigh the human cost of not intervening in the first place without doing so.

dlowan wrote:
Please comment on how many innocents we may slaughter in an invasion not sparked by an act of saggression against us. Let's try and keep it simple and truthful, eh?

If I could set a number for you, I would have. My repetition of the 5 million little girls statistic is reflective of my believe that ruining there lives is the alternative to successfully overcoming their would-be oppressors. If I were to set a number limit, it would be enormous.

Theoretically, globally, billions of people will be born into lives of horrible oppression if we continue down the beaten path. If it took a 100 million people martyred on the way to ending such oppression permanently, billions of lives would be saved. Where would you draw the line?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 10:36 am
Whoever emerges as the next Palestinian leader you can bet your bottom dollar that unless he was basically hand picked by Sharon and Bush (or compay thereof) by this time next year he will be demonized and every set back will put on his door.

Maybe Israel does not set out on purpose to kill innocents by firing rockets in a heavily crowded civilian area but they act in careless disregard for the deaths of innocents and so they are in no state to be throwing stones at Palestinians who strap on bombs and kill themselves and innocent women and children of Israel. Both are doing it for their own ends and both are the same except that Palestinians are fighting for their independence from Israel and Israel is fighting to keep from getting blown up.

In my mind Israel is the aggressor by taking more and more land away from the Palestine and keeping them in such a poor state of economy that they can't afford to take care of their needs in a proper fashion and so are living in slums. They are doing that by having Palestine in such a criss cross fashion that they can't go anywhere without all those road blocks. They are in effect in a prison and the world just does not care it seems. All they see and hear about is those crazy Palestinians that keep blowing up buses for no reason other than they just want to kill all jews. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 11:52 am
Israel has the need to defend itself by any means necessary. The Palestinians should be grateful the US holds Israel back from annhilating all of them.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 11:55 am
Quote:
Israel has the need to defend itself by any means necessary. The Palestinians should be grateful the US holds Israel back from annhilating all of them.


So, Israel has come full-circle now, to become the genocidal oppressors?

That only took 50 years or so. It's amazing what a little time will make people forget...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 11:58 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Israel has the need to defend itself by any means necessary. The Palestinians should be grateful the US holds Israel back from annhilating all of them.


So, Israel has come full-circle now, to become the genocidal oppressors?

That only took 50 years or so. It's amazing what a little time will make people forget...

Cycloptichorn


WTF are you talking about?
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 12:00 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Israel has the need to defend itself by any means necessary. The Palestinians should be grateful the US holds Israel back from annhilating all of them.


including of course the women and children.....good thing for them you're not in charge or they'd be toast...based on your statements.....of course you're welcome to refute.....
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 12:04 pm
Do you really need me to point it out?

The concept of the Israelis 'annhilating' a people who they can't get along with is somewhat Ironic given their past....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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