I've said plenty about Democratic values but we're so busy defending ourselves against abuses, we have our hands full at the moment.
Lola, I begin to think perhaps a large part of the Democrats' problem is that what the Democrats perceive to be abuses, the The GOP, in concert with the majority of The Electorate, sees as values to be cherished, promoted, and defended.
Lola wrote:Timber, Foxfire and george......by the time you finish gloating over your perceived victory and look around you, it will be too late. The GOP is flirting with the edge and some have already fallen.......they just don't seem to have recognized it yet.
Tom DeLay for one has finally cooked his own goose, I do believe. And Frist too. When those without a true mandate get too cock sure and all gloaty, they will find themselves by the wayside, cast aside as most over confident bullies eventually are.......... and deservedly so.
But I wasn't gloating. Instead I offered what I regard as a useful suggestion. What I got was denial, "Our Platform is OK" Our candidates are OK". I guess that means either the voters are not OK or that evil genius Karl Rove has them all in a spell.
With respect to Tom DeLay it is evident that there is a well financed campaign underway designed to destroy him, We shall see if it works. I do believe that he was fairly elected by the voters of his district, so your assertion that he doesn't have a "true mandate" doesn't make sense to me. What is a "true mandate" ? Is this a phrase that denotes the approval of liberals or something like that?
georgeob1 wrote:Lola wrote:Timber, Foxfire and george......by the time you finish gloating over your perceived victory and look around you, it will be too late. The GOP is flirting with the edge and some have already fallen.......they just don't seem to have recognized it yet.
Tom DeLay for one has finally cooked his own goose, I do believe. And Frist too. When those without a true mandate get too cock sure and all gloaty, they will find themselves by the wayside, cast aside as most over confident bullies eventually are.......... and deservedly so.
But I wasn't gloating. Instead I offered what I regard as a useful suggestion. What I got was denial, "Our Platform is OK" Our candidates are OK". I guess that means either the voters are not OK or that evil genius Karl Rove has them all in a spell.
With respect to Tom DeLay it is evident that there is a well financed campaign underway designed to destroy him, We shall see if it works. I do believe that he was fairly elected by the voters of his district, so your assertion that he doesn't have a "true mandate" doesn't make sense to me. What is a "true mandate" ? Is this a phrase that denotes the approval of liberals or something like that?
And this "well financed campaign designed to destroy [DeLay]" is also responsible for all the stuff being uncovered? Finally someone is digging. And with DeLay, you don't have to dig very deep. We shall see.......it's true.
It's well financed ok. It's financed at the grass roots level. I've sent as much as I can to help with the expenses. When we can no longer depend on the press, someone has to support a search for truth. DeLay is a scumbag from way back.
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1269856#1269856
Lola's tired of politics. Let's have a little fun at the cafe, ok?
When ya'll sober up, here's a provocative piece that summarizes beautifully what those evil Republicans have been trying to say all along:
Quote:Enough already! Let Democratic movers and shakers take one last look at those they are demonizing, because many are their brothers and sisters, social democrats driven into exodus by party excesses.
My Party Is Leaving the Faithful Behind
Maritain was arguably the best known Catholic philosopher in the world ... at the time of his death in in 1973.
But I'd never considered him a social democrat - Thomism it is.
(Should read him again ... when I'll do some religious readings.)
Many months ago, McGentrix, who says he himself is not a Christian, started a thread on the thesis that it will be the much-maligned religious right who is likely to have the last laugh after all. Well the most recent elections seem to bear that out. It isn't that the religious right are the answer or means to the correct ends or that people need to be one of them, but to ignore that more than 90% of the people have their values, ideals, and sense of justice formed in part by their religious faith is pure folly for any group who hopes to prevail politically.
Again it is not whose values that should concern us but what values. The majority can be ignored only a political peril.
And yes Walter, Martain is amazing and should be required reading at some point by just about everybody.
Quote:Dean's followers unique
'Deaniacs' are unified but are still largely out of step with nation, survey says.
By Chuck Raasch
Gannett News Service
April 10, 2005
WASHINGTON -- Howard Dean's supporters remain a cohesive political force, one made up disproportionately of liberal, nonreligious and highly educated Americans, according to an extensive study released this past week.
The study by the Pew Research Center contains good news for Dean, who is chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Most of the former presidential candidate's followers who participated in the survey said they wished there were a viable third party, but only one in 10 said they hoped the Democratic Party would "die off and be replaced" with a new one. That suggests many could support Dean's efforts at the DNC.
But Pew discovered potential bad news for Dean: Not only are the self-described "Deaniacs" out of step with other Americans on contentious issues such as gay marriage, they also differ with fellow Democrats on many positions. That could portend a tough battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party between now and the 2008 elections.
Although Dean, a former Vermont governor, failed to capture the Democratic presidential nomination, his network of more than 500,000 supporters "left a strong imprint on the political world," the survey concluded.
Pew conducted online surveys of 11,568 Dean supporters Sept. 13 and Dec. 14. It got the names from a database supplied by Dean's now-dormant presidential campaign. The combined surveys have a margin of error of plus or minus 1 percentage point.
Pew used earlier surveys it conducted to determine overall Democratic leanings. It got its total population percentages from a 2003 Census Bureau survey.
Dean's supporters were "far wealthier, better educated, more secular and much less ethnically diverse than other Democrats," according to Pew's analysis.
The study concluded:
A third of Dean's supporters have college degrees, compared with 9 percent of all Democrats.
Ninety-two percent of Dean's supporters are white, compared with 79 percent of all Democrats.
Thirty-eight percent of Deaniacs said they had no religious affiliation, compared with 11 percent of all Americans.
Ninety-one percent of Deaniacs support allowing gay people to marry, while 38 percent of all Democrats do.
For those who want more,
The Pew Study
Meanwhile, back at "We wuz robbed",
Quote:CNN: Kerry cites voter intimidation examples
Sunday, April 10, 2005 Posted: 7:37 PM EDT (2337 GMT)
BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- Many voters in last year's presidential election were denied access to the polls through trickery and intimidation, former Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry told a voters' group Sunday ...
Oh, yeah - these folks got it all figgerred out and they're movin' the Democratic Party onto the path to recovery.
One thing Kerry was quoted as sayin' in that CNN article stands out to me, though: " ... "We need to go about the business of making our own democracy in America work better," he said."
You got it, Senator - thats the deal. Now whatchya gotta do is get yerself and yer buddies back into participatin' in the game; grousin' about the plays and the players from the sidelines don't do a thing for the score.
Grousin? You mean like the Florida case where Republican Feeney asked a software developer to make a program to steal the vote?
http://www.bradblog.com/ClintCurtis.htm
Or where a newly formed Republican group gets to give expert testimony at Ohio Voter hearings?
We can't fix what went wrong if part of what needs to be fixed is repeatedly poo-poo-ed and referred to as whining and grousing.
Too right Squinney, but don't expect Timber to be changing his tune any time soon; he's having much too much fun putting people down right now.
Timber,
Quote:You got it, Senator - thats the deal. Now whatchya gotta do is get yerself and yer buddies back into participatin' in the game; grousin' about the plays and the players from the sidelines don't do a thing for the score.
Get back into the game?
Have you read
any of the news lately?
The Dems aren't just back in the game, they are
winning at the moment. With such complete majorities, the Republicans should be steamrolling the competition. It isn't happening.
True, it's only the first quarter; but it's nice to see some initiative...
Cycloptichorn
Well, squinney, thats mostly what it is - bring somethin' of substance to the table if ya wanna contribute to the meal.
The media bein' what it is, if there's a shred to get ahold of, the rug will get yanked right out from under whoever is standin' on it. Absolutely no denyin' there are flaws in The System - and not just as related to the votin' process.
Problem for The Left In America is, it just doesn't seem to be able to get past its cherished myths and move into the realm of reality. A continent doesn't drift away from an iceberg.
Cycloptichorn wrote:Too right Squinney, but don't expect Timber to be changing his tune any time soon; he's having much too much fun putting people down right now.
Ain't that I'm puttin' folks down, Cyc, its that I see some folks unable or unwillin' to recognize and address the real problems.
The Dems' leadership just ain't playin' the same game the rest of The Nation is. I ain't puttin' people down, I'm criticisizin' the mindset that has brought The Democratic Party to its present fortune. Some folks don't wanna hear that external influences have played no part in how the Dems have gotten themselves to where they are.
Quote:Get back into the game?
Have you read
any of the news lately?
The Dems aren't just back in the game, they are
winning at the moment. With such complete majorities, the Republicans should be steamrolling the competition. It isn't happening.
True, it's only the first quarter; but it's nice to see some initiative...
Cycloptichorn
If you figure 3 goals down, 3rd and long on your own 8 - again - is "showin' initiative", that goes a ways toward explainin' things.
You're right Timber. So long as the Dems continue to ignore the realities and continue to beat the drum that they lost because they were victimized or cheated, and if they think criticism of the Republicans is evidence they are winning, we can look forward to GOP victories for generations. All the smart Democrats have already acknowledged that it takes more than bashing the opposition to win. You have to have something to vote for instead of just something to vote against. And what the Deaniacs and their ilk want us to do is vote for what most of the American people have said pretty strongly that they don't want.
Democrats suffered major setbacks in the 1990s when an ethics-challenged leader -- House Speaker Jim Wright (D-Tex.), who resigned in 1989 -- became a larger symbol of his party than its platform issues. Now we have Tom DeLay vs the platform of Social Security reform. DeLay probably won't win this one and the republicans know that.
Timber,
3 goals down? How can you even say that?
Your team should be running away with the game right now, and it isn't happening.
Social security = not happening any time soon
Terri Schiavo = big mistake
Crusade against Judges = big mistake
Tom Delay = big anchor weighing ya down
True, you won the election. Kudos. But in the time since then, what has the Republican party done? Nothing, that's the answer, except for stirring up a lot of problems during the TS fiasco and now starting a crusade against judges which is going to backfire hard, and is causing division within your own party.
Dys brings up a great point that the Republicans have won in the past based upon ethics issues, and they haven't done a single thing to clean up the system, as they promised to do. They are going to get slammed by the Dems the same way in '06, bet on it.
Down by three goals? Your party hasn't accomplished any goals they've put forth this cycle so far, so I wouldn't start crowing yet.
Cycloptichorn
Medicare Reform, Tort Reform, Bankruptcy Reform, ANWAR ... seems to me that's ball control.
Heh
Medicare Reform - has been a fight from the beginning and is far from over
Tort Reform - allright, give ya that one
Bankruptcy Reform - this actually represents a loss for your party, as there are zero constituents who supported this area of interest and a very large number who were against it. Basically nothing but a soft lob to the credit card companies, and everyone knows it.
ANWAR - Haven't won that one yet, don't get ahead of yourself.
Anwar? Tort Reform? Are you purposefully ignoring the fact that your MAJOR legislative goals are being stymied at the moment, and choosing to focus on smaller goals? That's hardly ball control.... and Ball control is hardly scoring goals...
President's approval rating = lowest ever for second term president.
Congress approval rating = one of the lowest ever.
And you call that winning? Sheesh. I understand that you aren't capable of admitting that things aren't going as well for yer party as one would have hoped for this time period, but you should face some facts, man...
Cycloptichorn
It's a looooong way to 2008.
I'm not as optomistic as you, Cyclop. I don't think the majority of the public is as informed as those who post here in politics. I don't think most of the voters think about what they hear on the news. They hear it while fixing dinner and throwing in some laundry and telling the kids to stop jumping on the couch and accept whatever angle they are fed by whatever channel they watch. They don't question, let alone give it enough thought to catch the innuendo, consequences or real agenda.
Oh, I agree with ya, Squinney.
I'm looking forward to '06 as the strategic goal right now. I think the Dems have an excellent chance of picking up some seats; when you count the 'redistricting' the Repubs did in Texas and the seats lost due to that, the Dems really didn't do all that badly in the national elections last cycle.
The hopeful factors for me are the following:
Extremely poor approval ratings for both Congress and the President
Social Security reform isn't going well at all, and this is an issue that MANY people, if not MOST people, are aware of
Tom DeLay is getting major face time in the news these days, and it isn't positive
The TS fiasco really drives home how much the party has been taken over by radical Right-wingers; this doesn't sit well with many traditional conservatives
All in all it is difficult to imagine how, in the face of the recent electoral loss, the Dems could be doing much better at the moment. Given that they don't have any sort of majority whatsoever, it is encouraging that they have managed to hold on to as much power as they have so far.
I also like the unity displayed on the SS issue by the Dems; the Republicans wish they had anything that unified on the issue.
Still a long game to go, but trust me; it could be much, much, much worse.
Cycloptichorn
