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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

 
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 02:27 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Lola, you don't think 'dismembered our representative government' is rhetoric? Shocked


I think you're trying to apply a label to me that is so far from accurate that it's comical. More than that I will not say because if I do, I'll be banned from a2k land forever.

Come to think of it..........that might be a big fat blessing.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 02:27 pm
Lola wrote:
Since what I said is true, it would irresponsible not to point it out.

But you have given us no reason to believe that it's true conservative extremists have dismembered your representative government. Except if that's your word for "winning lots of elections" and "winning lots of referendums". Still practicing conservative debate tactics? Smile
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 02:28 pm
Okay, backing off in respect for Lola's nervous breakdown. I don't want to be responsible for any suicidal tendencies. Smile

I do agree with Tico though. All three times I've been pregnant, not one of the three different doctors ever talked about my 'embryo' or 'fetus'. They talked about my baby.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 02:30 pm
Lola wrote:
... Oh God! you people depress me.


"You" people? Surely you mean the liberals? They speak a very depressing rhetoric.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 02:58 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Okay, backing off in respect for Lola's nervous breakdown. I don't want to be responsible for any suicidal tendencies. Smile

I do agree with Tico though. All three times I've been pregnant, not one of the three different doctors ever talked about my 'embryo' or 'fetus'. They talked about my baby.


A friend of mine is pregnant with her first Smile so a bunch of us are throwing her a "baby" shower.....not a "fetus shower"....not an "embryo shower".

If her doctor referred to her baby as a "fetus" she would fire him on the spot and run.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 03:31 pm
hmm, I'm used to docs talking about embryonic and fetal development until the later stages of pregnancy. Maybe we expect more professional use of language from our docs here.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 03:45 pm
ehBeth wrote:
hmm, I'm used to docs talking about embryonic and fetal development until the later stages of pregnancy. Maybe we expect more professional use of language from our docs here.


Glad I don't live there .....
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 03:47 pm
No doubt about that.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:21 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
How about .... "If its not born yet, you can kill it." That pretty much encapsulate your thinking on this issue?

Rolling Eyes
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:25 pm
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
How about .... "If its not born yet, you can kill it." That pretty much encapsulate your thinking on this issue?

Rolling Eyes


Is that a "no," "yes," or "I don't want to answer that"?
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:34 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
ehBeth wrote:
hmm, I'm used to docs talking about embryonic and fetal development until the later stages of pregnancy. Maybe we expect more professional use of language from our docs here.


Glad I don't live there .....


You don't want to have to wait 9 months for an MRI or 16 months for non-elective surgery?

<Me, neither> Smile
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:36 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
You have to ask clearly defined questions in order to get a clearly defined answer. Otherwise people are going to answer what they think you asked.

Yeah I asked about the whole kaboozle - the GOP, your administration, President. "Any specific policy/proposal or action of the Republican Party or the administration" you would criticize.

When from your answer I gathered that the criticism you outlined in it referred specifically to the GOP in Congress, I thought to ask specifically also what there might be you'd also hold against the President and his administration.

With "administration", I meant his Cabinet - the people he appointed as his government of the country (isn't that what's usually meant by "the [Smith] administration"?).

I consider the question answered, dont worry - just explaining.

Lola, I gotta admit that

Lola wrote:
It's not Bush that's doing anything. And there's very little that is honest or sincere about him. The extremists in your party are driving us crazy because of the utter audacity with which they have dismembered our representative government

strikes me as just rhetorics as well, and I'm on your side... It's "true" to you, parts of it may even be true to me, but without any argument it is just rhetorics - unsubstantiated, flourishful assertions.

Also, I'm sure you'll recognize, when you come back, that the kind of reasoning that goes, "saying this kind of thing is only irresponsible if it's not true, but since what I said is true, it's not" would, indeed, like Thomas said, fit perfectly in your thread ... hey, with that line anyone can fend off arguments: "it's just true, so there!" :wink:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:37 pm
And I definitely want my doctor to think of my baby as a human being, not embrionic development.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:45 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Is that a "no," "yes," or "I don't want to answer that"?

Nah .. its more like ... "you expect me to take that post seriously? Go troll someone else if thats the level of argument you wanna do ... I dont feel like being your straw man today."

Or something of the sort.

So - you said you were in favour of the death penalty; just shoot anyone who ever committed a crime, that pretty much encapsulate your thinking on the issue?

(Don't answer that - just roll your eyes. It's all I'd do.)
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:50 pm
But Nimh it was a fair question when you twice rejected the idea of the unborn being a 'baby' but instead insisted on 'embryo' or 'fetus'. The implication was that the embryo or fetus is something other than a baby. Tico may have stretched to seem to extrapolate that into a question as to whether you think it is okay to kill it, but you have said as much at other times have you not?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:54 pm
And...we'd like a straight answer to the question, nimh.

Seeing as how you're such a fan of them and all.

Straight answers, that is.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 04:58 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
And I definitely want my doctor to think of my baby as a human being, not embrionic development.

Someone close to me had a miscarriage when she was two months pregnant. She does not feel like she had a baby who died.

If it had been seven months, it probably would have been a lot more like that. Because the promise of having a baby would have been so real, so close.

Then again, imagine a real, live baby, one you had actually held in your arms, who had cried and hugged you, dying - that's something very different again.

(OK, now I'm depressed, and I'm sure you all are too.)

Foxfyre wrote:
Tico may have stretched to seem to extrapolate that into a question as to whether you think it is okay to kill it

An assumption, even, that I would - yes, thats exactly what he did. And thats of a level way below what I'm willing to discuss with.

Foxfyre wrote:
but you have said as much at other times have you not?

You must be mistaking me for someone else. It's OK to abort up to the day before birth? You've seen me "saying as much" here?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 05:00 pm
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Is that a "no," "yes," or "I don't want to answer that"?

Nah .. its more like ... "you expect me to take that post seriously? Go troll someone else if thats the level of argument you wanna do ... I dont feel like being your straw man today."

Or something of the sort.

So - you said you were in favour of the death penalty; just shoot anyone who ever committed a crime, that pretty much encapsulate your thinking on the issue?

(Don't answer that - just roll your eyes. It's all I'd do.)


Yeah, take it seriously. Sorry you feel I'm trolling you, but you were the one who responded to my post with your "embryo" remark.

I am assuming you you are in favor of allowing a fetus/embryo/baby to be killed ... err ... aborted, so long as it's not yet born. You can correct me if I'm wrong ....

Now, in answer to the question you posed to me .....
Quote:
So - you said you were in favour of the death penalty; just shoot anyone who ever committed a crime, that pretty much encapsulate your thinking on the issue?


No. Just kill the one's who have been convicted of a capital crime and been sentenced to death.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 05:01 pm
JW, then - out of fairness, and all - I'm sure you'll sincerely expect Tico to answer this one as well, or what?

nimh wrote:
So - you said you were in favour of the death penalty; just shoot anyone who ever committed a crime, that pretty much encapsulate your thinking on the issue?

Personally, I would (and do) refuse to even respond to that kind of crap. Perhaps just me.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 05:08 pm
Tico always gives a straight answer, IMO. But, then, I think Foxy always gives a straight answer, too.

By the way - we don't shoot them, nimh. I'm sure you know that Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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