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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

 
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 01:07 pm
Your article provides an excellent take on some of the failures of the Democratic party, Fedral. I don't agree with many of its points, but it's certainly worth a read for those seeking a realistic response to the question: Why did the Democrats fail in 2004? A re-evaluation of "understanding" is certainly warranted.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:17 pm
The article Fedral posted is perhaps the best analysis I've seen yet. I think the problem has never been Bush or even Kerry but that we have become so polarized in our spoken basic values that we are almost two peoples. I say 'spoken values' because I think sometimes the rhetoric overshadows the honest conviction underneath. There was a time not so long ago that Americans mostly shared the same values with the primary differences being the degree of passion we felt about them. I wonder if we are really as divided as we seem now? I wonder if we can have a discussion about that without partisan rancor and insults?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:32 pm
apparently not
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:36 pm
fuk you, dyslexia, you skinny bow-legged, drug-snorting negativist
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:42 pm
Okay. Let's try this: George Bush has been given his third chance to unite the country. What do his supporters think he should do in order to achieve this?


Maybe I'll start a thread when I get up from my nap.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:48 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
Okay. Let's try this: George Bush has been given his third chance to unite the country. What do his supporters think he should do in order to achieve this?


Maybe I'll start a thread when I get up from my nap.


Keep on keeping on with the leadership exhibited in the first term. As in the election, the majority of the people will follow.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:59 pm
In other words, change nothing.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:02 pm
A lot of people I'd never suspected were Democrats are posting here. Interesting.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:04 pm
Ok, ehBeth, I confess, I'm not a Democrat. But I did sleep in a Holliday Inn Express last night.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:04 pm
The chances that the fellow quoted in Fedral's post is actually a Democrat is something close to zero. You guys realize that, don't you? It reads rather like a Canadian lumberjack's notion of the reasonable wife, or a Baptist's...

"The husband, thus the whole family unit, is made stronger when the wife, or squaw, recognizes that her seemingly reasonable demands for equality are, at base, of a selfish nature."

Saskatchewan, today, joined five other provinces and one territory in finding that prohibitions against gay marriage violated the equality principles of the Constitution.

There's hope, but not if you buy the slick absurdity that the only way for liberals to succeed is through becoming illiberal.

Fight these guys tooth and nail.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:07 pm
ehBeth wrote:
A lot of people I'd never suspected were Democrats are posting here. Interesting.


Would you be more comfortable preaching to the choir?
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:13 pm
I'm not here to preach about anything, Larry.



Quote:
Ticomaya wrote:

<sigh> *Well, it's partially our fault for engaging him after his first post.*

gav, we'd love to address your questions, but this is a "Bush Supporters Only" thread. This is the only Bush Supporters Only thread in this forum, so feel free to express your disdain and repeat your question in any other thread. Thanks.



Sometimes people need to have separate places to talk and reflect. There were separate usergroups here at one point. Perhaps this would be a time to consider using them again. Let everyone blow off some steam separately.

Or if the usergroup option isn't on - if people want to have Bush supporters threads or Dems threads - let them have them. Leave each other alone for a bit. Uniting isn't going to be an option if people keep picking at each other's scabs.

It's a suggestion, a comment, not an oration.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:17 pm
You have a weeping and gnashing thread built specifically for that purpose. I would suggest that you go there if you do not wish to engage the right during your discussion.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:22 pm
I sent you a pm before I saw your post, McG.
It still applies.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:38 pm
ehBeth wrote:
A lot of people I'd never suspected were Democrats are posting here. Interesting.



Like you, being a member of the conservative group and all. :wink:
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:39 pm
That's part of what my pm to McG is about.




(and it should be fairly obvious that I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican, which is why I'm being somewhat quiet in both arenas right now)
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:52 pm
What about the Debate Room? So far, this thread has been reduced to defending opinions and throwing insults or taking offense at well-meant posts that only state opinion and sometimes quote someone else's opinion.

What to do about charging up the Democratic Party isn't being done here--just the opposite. This isn't a thread for debating sides, nor is it elitist; its purpose is to find constructive ways for the Dems to succeed next time, which is why blacksmithin' tried to limit it to Democrats only.

Nice try, blacksmithin' but another forum might serve us better.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 04:19 pm
This fellow has it right...

Quote:
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Published: November 5, 2004

President Bush isn't a conservative. He's a radical - the leader of a coalition that deeply dislikes America as it is. Part of that coalition wants to tear down the legacy of Franklin Roosevelt, eviscerating Social Security and, eventually, Medicare. Another part wants to break down the barriers between church and state. And thanks to a heavy turnout by evangelical Christians, Mr. Bush has four more years to advance that radical agenda.

Democrats are now, understandably, engaged in self-examination. But while it's O.K. to think things over, those who abhor the direction Mr. Bush is taking the country must maintain their intensity; they must not succumb to defeatism.

This election did not prove the Republicans unbeatable. Mr. Bush did not win in a landslide. Without the fading but still potent aura of 9/11, when the nation was ready to rally around any leader, he wouldn't have won at all. And future events will almost surely offer opportunities for a Democratic comeback.

I don't hope for more and worse scandals and failures during Mr. Bush's second term, but I do expect them. The resurgence of Al Qaeda, the debacle in Iraq, the explosion of the budget deficit and the failure to create jobs weren't things that just happened to occur on Mr. Bush's watch. They were the consequences of bad policies made by people who let ideology trump reality.

Those people still have Mr. Bush's ear, and his election victory will only give them the confidence to make even bigger mistakes.

So what should the Democrats do?

One faction of the party is already calling for the Democrats to blur the differences between themselves and the Republicans. Or at least that's what I think Al From of the Democratic Leadership Council means when he says, "We've got to close the cultural gap." But that's a losing proposition.

Yes, Democrats need to make it clear that they support personal virtue, that they value fidelity, responsibility, honesty and faith. This shouldn't be a hard case to make: Democrats are as likely as Republicans to be faithful spouses and good parents, and Republicans are as likely as Democrats to be adulterers, gamblers or drug abusers. Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the country; blue states, on average, have lower rates of out-of-wedlock births than red states.

But Democrats are not going to get the support of people whose votes are motivated, above all, by their opposition to abortion and gay rights (and, in the background, opposition to minority rights). All they will do if they try to cater to intolerance is alienate their own base.

Does this mean that the Democrats are condemned to permanent minority status? No. The religious right - not to be confused with religious Americans in general - isn't a majority, or even a dominant minority. It's just one bloc of voters, whom the Republican Party has learned to mobilize with wedge issues like this year's polarizing debate over gay marriage.

Rather than catering to voters who will never support them, the Democrats - who are doing pretty well at getting the votes of moderates and independents - need to become equally effective at mobilizing their own base.

In fact, they have made good strides, showing much more unity and intensity than anyone thought possible a year ago. But for the lingering aura of 9/11, they would have won.

What they need to do now is develop a political program aimed at maintaining and increasing the intensity. That means setting some realistic but critical goals for the next year.

Democrats shouldn't cave in to Mr. Bush when he tries to appoint highly partisan judges - even when the effort to block a bad appointment fails, it will show supporters that the party stands for something. They should gear up for a bid to retake the Senate or at least make a major dent in the Republican lead. They should keep the pressure on Mr. Bush when he makes terrible policy decisions, which he will.

It's all right to take a few weeks to think it over. (Heads up to readers: I'll be starting a long-planned break next week, to work on a economics textbook. I'll be back in January.) But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 04:25 pm
Good on him! Here's another blue state elite leader protesting that all is well. We just have to instruct the masses better, mobilize our sacred base and eventually things will come our way.

This will ensure another generation of Republican majorities.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 04:27 pm
You're leaning again.
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