Looking ahead to Bush's second term...

FreeDuck wrote:

And I say this not being someone who is any big defender of the party's ideals, but as someone who was forced to the left in this election due to the careening to the right of the other party, and the lack of any other conscionable alternative.

amen.

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"so, i guess the superior message was, "be afraid. be very afraid". "

That was certainly part of it. But, to put in context.

"be afraid. be very afraid"...maintain a healthy fear for another terrorist attack and select the leader you think best capable of minimizing the chances of such an attack being successful. And fear mightily the one who wants no pre-emptive action to prevent one and global approval to respond to it.

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Larry434 wrote:

"so, i guess the superior message was, "be afraid. be very afraid". "

That was certainly part of it. But, to put in context.

"be afraid. be very afraid"...maintain a healthy fear for another terrorist attack and select the leader you think best capable of minimizing the chances of such an attack being successful. And fear mightily the one who wants no pre-emptive action to prevent one and global approval to respond to it.

larry, ya gotta go back and read a direct quotes of what kerry did say. not what the republicans tell that he said.

when you've done that, you'll see that he in fact said that he would indeed authorize a pre-emptive attack. also, the first thing that appears after the "global test" remark is that the reason needs to be explained to the people of the country. not france...

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I am looking forward to Bush's second term where we can all say "what's on the road, a head?"

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DTOM: I heard him. It was in one of the debates. I recall him saying he would authorize a pre-emptive strike IF it met some undefined "global test".

Quote: "No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim [Lehrer, the debate moderator], you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons."

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dyslexia wrote:

I am looking forward to Bush's second term where we can all say "what's on the road, a head?"

doesn't that road go through "donot pass"??

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

dyslexia wrote:
I am looking forward to Bush's second term where we can all say "what's on the road, a head?"

doesn't that road go through "donot pass"??

NO, of course not, it goes in front of the donut shop.

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Larry434 wrote:

DTOM: I heard him. It was in one of the debates. I recall him saying he would authorize a pre-emptive strike IF it met some undefined "global test".

Quote: "No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim [Lehrer, the debate moderator], you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons."

o.k., good. so you are one of the people that did the work and got hold of a transcript.

so what part of it sounds wimpy to you?

as i heard, and read, kerry speak, it simply means that you don't want to go off half cocked. "global" has a few meanings, depending on how it is used.

here's the webster's dictionary entry for "global":

Main Entry: glob·al
Pronunciation: 'glO-b&l
Function: adjective
1 : SPHERICAL
2 : of, relating to, or involving the entire world : WORLDWIDE <global warfare> <a global system of communication>; also : of or relating to a celestial body (as the moon)
3 : of, relating to, or applying to a whole (as a mathematical function or a computer program) <a global search of a file>
- glob·al·ly /'glO-b&-lE/ adverb

here's the webster's thesaurus entry for "global":

One entry found for global.
Entry Word: global
Function: adjective
Text:
1 Synonyms UNIVERSAL 2, catholic, cosmic, cosmopolitan, ecumenical, planetary, worldwide
Antonyms parochial

2 Synonyms ALL-ROUND 2, comprehensive, general, inclusive, overall, sweeping
Related Word all-inclusive, blanket, catholic, grand, universal

i don't think it was you, larry. but, on one of the many threads someone made a comment along the lines of " i know liberals are in love with the color grey".

it's not so much that liberals "love" grey (because it is a real pain in the ass ), as that the world is not black and white. some like to pretend that it is, but it isn't.

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DTOM: Maybe you don't think Kerry's comment wimpy, but it was too much of a qualifier of pre-emptive action for my taste.

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Larry434 wrote:

DTOM: Maybe you don't think Kerry's comment wimpy, but it was too much of a qualifier of pre-emptive action for my taste.

not good enough.

the difference is that kerry's statement recommends that america, the nation, as opposed to america the bush doctrine, not go off half cocked.

bush did. therefore, america did.

the bush doctrine mirrors everything that i absolutely hate about political correctness;

"everybody has rights and nobody has responsibility".

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Well, DTOM, it is obvious our judgment differs, and it is no longer relevant since the time for choosing has passed and the people have made their choice, rejecting the candidate who made the qualifying "global test" candidate, for that and many other reasons.

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Larry434 wrote:

Duck: My health insurance is with the FEHB plan that Fed employees, retirees and Congressmen have access to.

The total premium for my plan this year is $879.19 per month. My share is $233.02. And that is with an HMO. Fee for service plans are even more.

Quite a government entitlement to lavish on those who have not earned it, don't you think?

Are you speaking of yourself or Congress?

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FreeDuck wrote:

Larry434 wrote:
Duck: My health insurance is with the FEHB plan that Fed employees, retirees and Congressmen have access to.

The total premium for my plan this year is $879.19 per month. My share is $233.02. And that is with an HMO. Fee for service plans are even more.

Quite a government entitlement to lavish on those who have not earned it, don't you think?

Are you speaking of yourself or Congress?

Both get the same coverage.

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I was being a smart alec, Larry.

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I am wondering, though, how one earns health care...

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FreeDuck wrote:

I am wondering, though, how one earns health care...

By working for an employer who provides it as part of the total compensation and retirement package.

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Larry434 wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
I am wondering, though, how one earns health care...

By working for an employer who provides it as part of the total compensation and retirement package.

Why do employers have to foot the bill? And what if one works as a contract employee or a small business person who is not entitled to benefits?

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FreeDuck wrote:

Larry434 wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
I am wondering, though, how one earns health care...

By working for an employer who provides it as part of the total compensation and retirement package.

Why do employers have to foot the bill?

They don't. But they do to be competitive with other companies who do.

And what if one works as a contract employee or a small business person who is not entitled to benefits?

Then one can purchase insurance and deduct it as a business expense if they pay themselves salary and benefits.

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Larry434 wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
Larry434 wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
I am wondering, though, how one earns health care...

By working for an employer who provides it as part of the total compensation and retirement package.

Why do employers have to foot the bill?

They don't. But they do to be competitive with other companies who do.

And what if one works as a contract employee or a small business person who is not entitled to benefits?

Then one can purchase insurance and deduct it as a business expense if they pay themselves salary and benefits.

So, you know how much unsubsidized insurance for a family costs, right? Do you think that is something that most people can afford? Just as an example -- when my family was uninsured (not very long ago) health insurance for us would have cost more than our mortgage. Not surprisingly, we didn't buy any. We got by because we are all, thankfully, in good health. That is not the case for everyone.

Personally, I think insurance itself is overrated, but I think that there is no reason why the richest country on earth cannot ensure that no-one has to go without healthcare when they need it. It's the fundamentally humanitarian thing to do. It's also in our nations best interest. How it's done, I don't really care, but I will never agree with you that healthcare is something that must be earned. There are some things in this world that you cannot put a dollar value on, and this is one of them.

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duck: Yup, my insurance costs about $10K per annum, most of which is paid by my employer as part of my total compensation.

And of course I know you are in favor of a government of entitlements. That ideology is the fundamental element of what separates conservatives and liberals.

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Looking ahead to Bush's second term...

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