Looking ahead to Bush's second term...

revel wrote:

ebeth, I was going to post the same article.

I can't believe that Bush said, "God bless his soul" with a straight face after his brush off of Arafat all this time.

gungasnake, why should the Palestinians be the ones to have to find somewhere else to live when they were there first?

They weren't there first. Forget about Joshus Ben Nun or anything before Christ, the modern state of Israel began in the late 1800s. When Mark Twain visited the holy land around 1870 or thereabouts, he described it as a giant wasteland, an extended ghost town which was largely uninhabited. It was only after zionists moved into the region and there were jobs there that muslim arabs began moving into the region in large numbers. There are no more than a tiny handful of muslims with any history of living in that region longer than about a hundred years.

Atzlan/LaRaza claims of owning the American southwest are similar. There were no more than the tiniest handful of Mexican or Spanish people living in California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas or any of those places by 1830. If there'd been any sizeable Mexican population in California in the 1800s, Anglo settlers would not have had a prayer of taking it over.

0 Replies

FreeDuck wrote:

A muslim diaspora?

Try taking a look at the maps. That gigantic stretch of territory between the wall of China and Morocco is the Muslim world, broken up only by a tiny sliver of land called Israel which most people couldn't even find on a map unless they knew precisely where to look.

The idea of claiming that Israel owes the muslim world any of its own land is ludicrous.

0 Replies

gungasnake wrote:

There are no more than a tiny handful of muslims with any history of living in that region longer than about a hundred years.

So it belongs to them. Thanks for pointing that out, gunga.

0 Replies

The territory of Israel does not belong to the handful of muslims with real histories of living in the region. Zionists didn't just walk in and boot those guys out. They bought land, often at inflated prices, from the legal owners at the time, which was mainly Turks.

0 Replies

gungasnake wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
A muslim diaspora?

Try taking a look at the maps. That gigantic stretch of territory between the wall of China and Morocco is the Muslim world, broken up only by a tiny sliver of land called Israel which most people couldn't even find on a map unless they knew precisely where to look.

The idea of claiming that Israel owes the muslim world any of its own land is ludicrous.

Perhaps I should have said a 'palestinian' diaspora. Anyway, gunga, you've already been debunked on a previous thread regarding that Mark Twain business. How likely is it that that land was uninhabited a little over a century ago? What you're advocating is something akin to what was done to native americans in this country, and has since been condemned.

But this is something you can feel free to take to one of the many threads on this subject.

0 Replies

Einherjar wrote:

I think it is more likely that the palestinians get only gaza than that they get only the west bank.

Very true. But I find it more likely that they get both (with at least most of thr west bank) than just Gaza.

fbaezer wrote:

I'll stick to stuff that has to do with Mexico-US relations.

Ahh, another good one. Some was tableed because of 9/11 some even promised afterwards.

This is another potential bright spot from this administration. We can only hope.

revel wrote:

If judging by myself is any indication, most Americans don't know the difference between Gaza and West Bank or much of anywhere else over there. I will have to look it up on a map and see what you guys are talking about.

Arg, this is a pity as Americans have more control over this peace process than any other participant.

Quote:

I wonder if he did die, what if anything Bush will say about it. I wonder what Sharon will say about it. I wonder what is going to happen now. To me this seems a big deal.

He didn't die, but this is what Bush said:

"My first reaction is, God bless his soul. My second reaction is that we will continue to work for a free Palestinian state that is at peace with Israel."

0 Replies

gungasnake, IMO there are a lot of Mid-East conflict threads that are better suited for your comments.

In any case, I am pleased that Bush does not share your position, and I am pleased that it is a position that is and hopefully will remain the exclusive domain of an extreme fringe.

0 Replies

Here's a clue as to what to expect in his second term:

In his first term, Bush pursued domestic policy goals that were already popular: tax cuts, education reforms and Medicare expansion. But for his second term, the president has chosen more controversial ?- and politically more difficult ?- priorities: revamping the federal tax code and restructuring Social Security, the most popular government program in history.

In foreign affairs, Bush entered the White House in 2001 with relatively modest aims, but his presidency was redefined by the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 that year. Officials and experts said his second term was likely to be dominated by the unfinished business of the first: the war in Iraq, confrontations with Iran and North Korea, and the continuing struggle against Islamic terrorists around the world.

All that, Gingrich and others said, could make Bush's second term an exception to the normal historical pattern of recent presidencies ?- at least in the scale of its ambitions. Instead of a lame-duck second term of small ideas and small achievements, Bush has staked out a list of ambitious, difficult goals.

"People say, 'The country's divided; shouldn't he be less ambitious?' " said Grover Norquist, president of the conservative Americans for Tax Reform. "No. This is a Republican-majority country. He will govern as aggressively as in the first term."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-na-agenda4nov04,0,5629275.story?coll=la-home-headlines

0 Replies

If Bush pulls off a middle east peace plan and palestinians get a State, then maybe I can live with everything else.

0 Replies

Ditto.

0 Replies

Should have titled this thread "Looking behind to Bush's Second Term"

0 Replies

revel wrote:

Still, it is sad about Arafat even if he was a poor leader, he was a virtual prisoner for a long time.

You might want to tell that to the family of Leon Klinghoffer. Remember him? He was a 69 year-old man in a wheelchair.

He was shot in cold blood by Palestinian terrorists and his body thrown off the Achille Lauro, wheelchair and all.

His crime??? He was vacationing aboard an Italian cruise liner. He was also American.

Sad indeed. Bunch of cut throat cowards is what you're feeling sad for.

0 Replies

Expect action against Iranian nuclear facilities - and don't be surprised by action against North Korea. The action in Iran may be via agency of the Israeli airforce and will influence the US attitude to a Palestinian settlement. Israel may demand such action as a condition of settlement.

0 Replies

Revel was saying it was sad about Arafat, JW. Who are the others you inferred in your reply about "cowards" in the plural?

0 Replies

JustWonders wrote:

revel wrote:
Still, it is sad about Arafat even if he was a poor leader, he was a virtual prisoner for a long time.

You might want to tell that to the family of Leon Klinghoffer. Remember him? He was a 69 year-old man in a wheelchair.

He was shot in cold blood by Palestinian terrorists and his body thrown off the Achille Lauro, wheelchair and all.

His crime??? He was vacationing aboard an Italian cruise liner. He was also American.

Sad indeed. Bunch of cut throat cowards is what you're feeling sad for.

I don't condone violence to innocent people no matter who they are.

As for the specific case, I don't know anything about it, but again that is sad as well.

0 Replies

Well, I know something about that case and Arafat wasn't involved. It is a favorite example though. Somehow it's worse than firing a missile into a man in a wheel chair in the middle of a crowded street. Nobody has the moral high ground in that conflict.

But back to the topic. Doesn't it sound like Bush is telling those of us who didn't vote for him to go f*** ourselves? That's the way some of the things in his speech sounded to me.

0 Replies

freeduck, yea his speeches do sound that way. I guess since they gained in the house and senate President Bush don't feel the need to mouth platitudes of being a uniter.

0 Replies

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how that will play out when the bitterness of the campaign subsides.

0 Replies

I am often wrong, but unless I miss my guess the President won't care how it plays out knowing that he don't have to play nice in order to be reelected again. I imagine he is going to do whatever he darn well pleases.

0 Replies

FreeDuck wrote:

Well, I know something about that case and Arafat wasn't involved. It is a favorite example though. Somehow it's worse than firing a missile into a man in a wheel chair in the middle of a crowded street. Nobody has the moral high ground in that conflict.

But back to the topic. Doesn't it sound like Bush is telling those of us who didn't vote for him to go f*** ourselves? That's the way some of the things in his speech sounded to me.

Arafat wasn't involved??

Quote:

What did this event have to do with Yasser Arafat and the PLO? According to Israeli intelligence reports and information relayed by Italian Defence Minister Giovanni Spadolini:

...the terrorists were in contact, via the ship's radio telephone, with a PLF [Palestine Liberation Front] co-ordinator in Genoa. He, in turn, got in touch with the PLO headquarters in Tunis for final instructions.

Source

Revel can feel "sad" for anyone she wants to. The fact that Arafat and his "band of thugs" are truly ugly slimeballs who delight in sending youths--both male and female to their deaths, while he rakes in the cash doesn't make Yassir Arafat a coward?

His hands are covered in the blood of Jews, Americans, and Israelis (to name a few) but the people he really has betrayed are the Palestinians.

You people feel sorry for him all you want.

0 Replies

Looking ahead to Bush's second term...

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know