0
   

Weeping and gnashing of teeth

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 04:27 pm
squinney wrote:
Actually, those numbers were changed late Tuesday night. There's an article on buzzflash about it. Someone captured the initial page and cached it for comparison.

They probably just updated the numbers once they got the complete data in?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 05:18 pm
Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes

10 minutes ago

By JOHN McCARTHY, Associated Press Writer

COLUMBUS, Ohio - An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush (news - web sites) 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said. Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites)'s 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Bush's total should have been recorded as 365.


Bush won the state by more than 136,000 votes, according to unofficial results, and Kerry conceded the election on Wednesday after saying that 155,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted in Ohio would not change the result.


Deducting the erroneous Bush votes from his total could not change the election's outcome, and there were no signs of other errors in Ohio's electronic machines, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell.


Franklin is the only Ohio county to use Danaher Controls Inc.'s ELECTronic 1242, an older-style touchscreen voting system. Danaher did not immediately return a message for comment.


Sean Greene, research director with the nonpartisan Election Reform Information Project, said that while the glitch appeared minor "that could change if more of these stories start coming out."


In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost in this election because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did.


And in San Francisco, a malfunction with custom voting software could delay efforts to declare the winners of four races for county supervisor.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voting_problems&e=1&ncid=
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 05:23 pm
Oh, so I didn't vote on a Diebold, looks like. (I'm in Franklin County.) I thought that was a pretty clunky system, more so than what I expected from "high tech" Diebold.

Franklin County went for Kerry as it was/ with current tallies. But it's certainly where a lot of Kerry votes are.

Probably actually a minor glitch, but... <smooshes down a tiny wisp of hope...>

Can you just imagine, though...!
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 05:31 pm
The White Man and his trust on technology Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 05:42 pm
Anyone registered for Miami Herald? I don't want to sign up for yet another one.. If you are already registered could you go to http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/ and look towards the middle of the page for top Broward News. and let us know what happened?


More voting problems there.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:11 pm
Squinny, I got in it for a short while and then the site "discovered" me and demanded I register. Apparently there is a problem with the tally software in the electronic machines. Once the tally reaches 3,500 a hidden "bug" is activated and the software subtracts rather than adds additional votes. ??????? No idea how it is being resolved and whether this bug was active while the election was in progress.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:38 pm
(Darn machines!!! Can't tally a vote, but they find lurkers in a heartbeat!) Smile
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:05 pm
Another interesting vote tally problem:

Palm Beach County Logs 88,000 More Votes Than Voters
November 5, 2004 04:56 PM


According to the official election results posted on the Palm Beach County election website, 542,835 ballots were cast for a presidential candidate while only 454,427 voters turned out for the election (including absentee). This leaves a discrepancy of 88,408 votes cast for the presidential candidates.

Palm Beach County's supervisor of elections is Theresa LePore who is known for the 2000 Presidential Election and the notorious "butterfly ballot" that caused confusion among seniors and other Floridians.

Other election oddities occurred throughout Florida with some counties registering a 400% increase in expected voter turnout among Republicans while Democrats supposedly experienced a -60% decline in expected support within certain counties. The 50+ counties experiencing the high percentage fluctuations in expected turnout used optical scan voting machines on November 2nd.

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000715.html






I'm sure these will become more widely reported as the real counting gets done. I guess the question is, will it matter? I kinda feel like Dems have already laid down and given up so a real count won't matter even if major discrepencies are discovered. If the vote came down to a Kerry win, I don't think anyone would fight for it now. Am I wrong?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:25 pm
if it was proven beyond a doubt that more republican chicanary took place, you better believe that the dems would be jumpin' all over it. and so would, i believe, reps of good character.

but... it would have to be undisputable. and i don't know of any way that can be done without a paper trail.

until then, i don't really want to give the gloat brigade an excuse to snicker as they pronounce libber-ulllllll...
0 Replies
 
Instigate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:07 pm
The high turnout in Arizona was probably due to the controversial Proposition 200, an amendment requiring proof of citizenship to be presented when registering to vote, voting, and signing up for social services. It also requires public employees to report anyone who cannot present proof of citizenship to federal immigration authorities. Failing to report someone carries a 4 month jail sentence. The Proposition is intended for illegal immigrants who might be using our welfare system or try to vote. It primarily symbolic in nature.

The initiative has widespread support, it passed easily, but opposition is fierce and spearheaded by our damned Governor Napolitano. It has been challenged in Court.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:40 pm
Thanks for coming in to clear that one up, Instigate. 'Ppreciated.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:55 pm
Another take on what went wrong with the vote counts and totals ...

Quote:
WHY CLEVELAND FELL SHORT.
Blind Side

by Jason Zengerle

The New Republic
Post date 11.05.04 | Issue date 11.15.04

CLEVELAND, OHIO

It's 4:15 in the afternoon on Election Day, and Desmond Jones and Prophet Seay are speeding toward a polling place at an elementary school on Cleveland's predominately black East Side. They are two of the more than 500 African American canvassers that the Ohio Democratic Party has enlisted to get out the black vote here, and their mission at the moment seems simple enough: Obtain a list of all the people who have already voted in that precinct, something the poll workers are required to post twice on Election Day, first at 11 a.m. and then at 4 p.m. But the poll workers at this precinct failed to post the list in the morning, and the hunch at John Kerry's local headquarters in the affluent suburb of Shaker Heights is that they won't post an afternoon list, either. That is presumably why the brain trust running Cleveland's African American get-out-the-vote (gotv) effort has put Jones and Seay on the case.

As two of the more personable--and, frankly, handsome--canvassers, the thinking seems to be that the duo might be able to charm the predominately female poll workers into giving them a peek at the list. Sure enough, Jones, a spoken-word poet with a shaved head and a diamond stud in his left ear, begins to flirt with the woman in charge of the list. "I'm just here to see if you're doing OK," he says, dropping his voice to a low Barry White baritone. Meanwhile, Seay, an aspiring actor with coffee-colored skin and cascading dreadlocks, stands behind Jones and smiles. It only takes a few minutes for the poll worker to melt and hand over the list.

Cross-checking the names with their own roster of 104 voters the Democrats have targeted in this precinct, Jones and Seay make a discouraging discovery: Only 31 of their targets are marked down as having voted. But, a few minutes later, when Jones and Seay get on their cell phones and call some of those missing from the precinct's list to urge them to vote before the polls close at 7:30 that night, those people say they have voted already. It turns out that not only did the precinct's poll workers fail to post the voting list, but they also didn't keep an accurate tally of who voted. "There's not a lot you can do," one gotv staffer later complains, "when they don't follow the simple rules."

Indeed, for all the fears about Republican attempts to suppress the black vote in Cleveland, either through dirty tricks--like spreading rumors that people with outstanding warrants or unpaid child support would be arrested if they showed up at the polls--or through an aggressive use of the Ohio law that allows challengers to contest the eligibility of individual voters, the biggest obstacles the Democrats' African American gotv efforts faced here were of a more mundane, bureaucratic variety. "Our worst fears weren't realized," says one Democratic lawyer who worked on voter-protection efforts here. "It was the kind of thing you usually expect--long lines, broken equipment, poorly trained poll workers--that caused the biggest headaches." Ultimately, those headaches weren't enough to stymie the African American gotv effort in Cleveland; it actually exceeded expectations. But it was not sufficient to counter unprecedented Republican turnout elsewhere in Ohio and propel Kerry to victory.



If Kerry was going to win Ohio, the thinking among Democrats went, he had to turn out an unprecedented number of black voters in Cleveland. With that in mind, Democrats relied on an African American gotv strategy never before tried in this city. Traditionally in Cleveland, African American gotv efforts have started in earnest only the weekend before the election, when canvassers descend on the city's eleven predominately black wards, plus the predominately black suburbs of East Cleveland and Warrensville Heights. And, this year, the Democrats didn't entirely abandon that strategy--sending about 400 canvassers into those areas to go door-to-door on Election Day.

But the Democrats also implemented a more tailored program, consisting of about 100 canvassers like Jones and Seay, called the "African American Kerry Walkers" (aakw). Led by a charismatic black turnout guru from Los Angeles named Greg Akili, the aakw targeted 58,000 black registered voters who, according to election records, hadn't voted in the past four years. Three weeks before the election, the aakw canvassers began knocking on those people's doors. By Election Day, they had come up with a list of about 18,000 black voters in Cleveland who hadn't voted in the past four years but who said they would go to the polls this time around. On November 2, it was the aakw canvassers' jobs to make sure these 18,000 voted.

In many ways, the aakw canvassers seemed uniquely suited to their task. Because of Cleveland's 12.5 percent unemployment rate--more than double Ohio's average--the pool of people willing to work for the $500 per week that Democrats were offering was unusually large and highly skilled. "These are a higher caliber of canvassers," explains Larry Parks, one of the out-of-state consultants working on the aakw program. "They have good work ethics, they're smart. In a better economy, they'd have work." And the conditions for accomplishing their goal seemed uniquely propitious. News of the Ohio Republican Party's attempts to challenge 23,000 new voter registrations--many of them in predominately black precincts--and to place challengers in the polling places inflamed Cleveland's black voters who, if they weren't initially inclined to vote because of lukewarm feelings about Kerry, were now eager to go to the polls as an exercise of their civil rights. "African American folks have withstood slavery, withstood Jim Crow, and we can withstand any challenger," Cleveland's African American Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones declared the day before the election.

But Election Day brought its own set of challenges. First, there was the weather--a drenching rain and a howling wind battered Cleveland from the moment the polls opened at 6:30 Tuesday morning until the moment they closed at 7:30 that night. The aakw canvassers tried to compensate, handing out cheap plastic ponchos to voters, but Democratic aides fretted that the inclement conditions kept some voters at home. Then there were the lines at the polls, caused primarily by poorly trained poll workers and broken ballot machines. At some polling places in Cleveland, especially in the morning, people had to wait up to two hours to vote. The Democrats dispatched Jesse Jackson, who was in town, to convince people to stick it out in line; Cam Kerry and Larry David, who briefly stopped in Cleveland before heading to Boston, performed similar duties. But, Democrats conceded, some people on those lines inevitably went home without voting.

Finally, the biggest challenge facing the aakw canvassers was the poll workers' refusal, in a number of instances, to keep track of and reveal which individuals had voted. The whole point of the aakw program was to pinpoint specific voters and therefore achieve a higher yield. "Instead of visiting ten houses, [a canvasser] could check the list and see that six of those ten houses had already voted," Akili explains. "He could then visit the other four who hadn't and then keep going and keep going and only hit people who hadn't voted. ... This whole system is designed to knock on the right door and talk to the right person." But, without an accurate tally of who actually voted, aakw canvassers frequently wasted their efforts on people who had already been to the polls. While one member of the aakw team had predicted close to a 100 percent yield, in the end, the program turned out between 8,000 and 10,000 of its 18,000 targeted voters, according to early estimates.



Of course, those numbers are nothing to scoff at, nor are the results from the overall Democratic gotv effort in the Cleveland area--where turnout was up 8 percent and 65,000 votes from 2000--and where Kerry beat Bush by more than 215,000 votes. Indeed, some Democrats in Cleveland maintain (somewhat unfairly, it must be said) that, if their colleagues' efforts had yielded similar results with the party's base in the white, blue-collar areas of Ohio, Kerry might have been able to win the state.

That obviously didn't happen. Instead, thanks to a highly successful Republican turnout drive in rural areas, such as Clark County--which Bush lost to Gore by 324 votes in 2000 but carried this time by over 1,600 votes--Bush increased his vote totals statewide by nearly 445,000 over 2000 and beat Kerry's ground game. So, on the day after the election, Democrats here are engaging in a more personal, introspective kind of Monday morning quarterbacking. "We did everything we set out to do, and we exceeded all of our goals," Akili says, sitting on a bench outside a glum Kerry headquarters as he prepares to head to the airport with some colleagues. "But our goals might not have been high enough. I just don't know if Cleveland had much more to give."
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 09:00 pm
I just got a spreadsheet from my local campaign for Kerry showing how much better turnout was than in 2000 -- subject: "much to be proud of" -- that says virtually the same thing for Columbus.

(I can forward it to you if you want, nimh. :-) )
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 09:03 pm
There's even more to the Ohio voting problems:

http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 11:02 pm
geezus
0 Replies
 
georgia brown
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 11:24 pm
How is declaring amnesty for 350,000 mexican alians, Giving tax cuts to nontaxpayers, allowing Racisiam ,or as bush's oponants call it "afermative action" or "diversaty" to be reinstalled, One party politics? Not to mention conducting a tottaly just war! In a PC manner. and whats with gay marridge ? Im A republican , An rest asured . Youve got a liberal in office!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 11:30 pm
squinney wrote:
There's even more to the Ohio voting problems:

http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php


Such problems presumably affext both candidates similarly, though, don't they?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 12:04 am
Here's something to lift your spirits. Don't let anyone make fun of you for being a poor loser. You could be this guy.

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/11/04/keyes/index.html

Quote:
Nov. 4, 2004  |  Chicago -- Alan Keyes blamed the media and fellow Republicans on Thursday for his lopsided loss to Democrat Barack Obama in the U.S. Senate race in Illinois.


Keyes also said he did not congratulate Obama after the race was called, a tradition among politicians, because doing so would have been a "false gesture" because he believes Obama's views on issues like abortion are wicked.


"I'm supposed to make a call that represents the congratulations toward the triumph of that which I believe ultimately stands for and will stand for a culture evil enough to destroy the very soul and heart of my country," Keyes said. "I can't do this, and I will not make a false gesture."
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 12:30 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Here's something to lift your spirits. Don't let anyone make fun of you for being a poor loser. You could be this guy.

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/11/04/keyes/index.html

Quote:
Nov. 4, 2004 | Chicago -- Alan Keyes blamed the media and fellow Republicans on Thursday for his lopsided loss to Democrat Barack Obama in the U.S. Senate race in Illinois.


Keyes also said he did not congratulate Obama after the race was called, a tradition among politicians, because doing so would have been a "false gesture" because he believes Obama's views on issues like abortion are wicked.


"I'm supposed to make a call that represents the congratulations toward the triumph of that which I believe ultimately stands for and will stand for a culture evil enough to destroy the very soul and heart of my country," Keyes said. "I can't do this, and I will not make a false gesture."


Pardon this brief intrusion, but IMO Keyes is an idiot and has nobody to blame but himself. His refusal to congratulate Obama shows he has no class, and if we're lucky this will be his last election. That's all ... bye.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:03 am
Agree re Keyes ... he's a bufoon and an embarassment. Obama is destined for great things. Keyes should find it difficult to earn the sort of income to which he had become accustomed.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 8.94 seconds on 12/24/2024 at 10:56:59