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Usama Bin Ladin goes to bat for John Kerry. Why?

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 05:25 pm
Anybody who thinks Kerry will give bin Laden a get out of jail free card just isn't paying attention. I believe Kerry would come a lot closer to catching him than Bush has. In fact Bush has dropped the ball already.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 05:30 pm
osama is a bit player now...since the invasion of Iraq.His feelings are hurt...he's trying to maintain his fiefdom. His time ain't long.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 05:52 pm
Quote:
Saddam is a "murderous tyrant." Where's your outrage against him?


What does this have to do with Saddam? And what does this have to do with bin Laden going to "bat" for Kerry?

What is it about neoconservatives who find it extraordinarily difficult to stick to the subject?

Very sad indeed...
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 06:25 pm
Has anyone posted a link to translated text? Here's some bits in an article at a San Diego newspaper.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/terror/20041029-1423-binladentape.html
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 06:38 pm
panzade wrote:
osama is a bit player now...since the invasion of Iraq.His feelings are hurt...he's trying to maintain his fiefdom. His time ain't long.


I don't know if Osama is such a bit player. Allegedly, Al-Zarqawi has pledged allegiance to him, putting himself at his disposal. Operation Freedom has merely served to draw al Qaeda there from other places, and to incite Iraqi reactionaries to join the cause in the name of Iraqi nationalism and Islamism.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 08:10 pm
True InfraBlue, but I think Al-z is much more powerful now and is paying lip service to Bin Laden to rally more reactionaries
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 08:19 pm
Bin Laden may be a bit player in the overall scheme of things. This does not alter the fact that he was one of those directly responsible for 911. I don't think we should let him off the hook.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 08:32 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Sozobe... do you honestly believe Usama would rather prolong the fight than win it?

Of course he wants to win it. But how is he going to win it? And who is he looking to defeat?

Put in simplistic terms, these are his main goals:
- Get the current Arab governments overthrown
- Create Islamist states instead
- Get all American troops and influence out

Now how is he going to achieve this? He cant ever directly beat America. His first target, his real target, are the Arab governments. Those his people can overthrow. How? If things get bad enough - verelendungstheory and all that. If he can rally the Arabs around him and make them think he's their salvation, their only salvation left. What does he need to achieve that? An enemy. A proper, titanic arch enemy. The black to his white, or vice versa.

OBL genuinely wants the Americans out. But he doesnt just want the current governments to send them away - he wants to be in power. Bush is doing him a great service, by helping him frame the question as an us-or-them, us vs. them situation. Rally behind the only true Muslim leader who dares to stand up against the cruel American invader! Works like a dream.

With someone less messianistic, less interventionist, less us vs them than Bush in power, there'd be that much less of an enemy image. No overriding need to rally all Muslim troops behind his resistance, no overriding motivation to overthrow those cowardly Arab regimes who depend on the yankee dollar.

Think of the communists of old - and their Verelendungs theory I just mentioned. They believed that the only way the people would ever rise up in revolution was if things got bad enough first. Ergo, the worse things became, the better it was. The German communists of the late 20s, early 30s speeched against the Nazis, but in practice focused most of their attention on fighting the social-democrats, those moderate rivals who might succeed in luring the proletariat away from true revolution. The "social-fascists", they called them, trying to make them sound worse than the real fascists. The fascists themselves - those for long they considered mostly a useful tool. With such an enemy opposite them, the center would automatically be crushed in the middle - leaving only them, the communists, and those nazis for the final, decisive battle.

Same logic here. There is no greater boon imaginable for OBL's regional ambitions than a world in which the "Arab street" sees only an American warmonger on the one hand, and Osamas Islamist resistance on the other. Only that scenario, the ultimate recruitment ground as Sozobe said, can help him sweep aside all those pesky governments and regimes now in place, all those possible moderate alternatives in the Muslim world. Us or them! Its the best enemy he can think of. And once he is the one to rule over Arabia, he wont find it so hard to keep American troops out. Along with the rest of his shopping list.

Thats the idea. You may disagree, but stupidity its not. The logic has ample historical precedence.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 08:50 pm
from the Kerry website:
"In response to this tape from Osama bin Laden, let me make it clear, crystal clear. As Americans, we are absolutely united in our determination to hunt down and destroy Osama bin Laden and the terrorists. They are barbarians. And I will stop at absolutely nothing to hunt down, capture or kill the terrorists wherever they are, whatever it takes. Period."
John Kerry


from Reuters (not yet on Bush website):
"Let me make this very clear, Americans will not be intimidated or influenced by an enemy of our country," he said in Toledo, Ohio.

"I'm sure Sen. Kerry agrees with this," he said. "I also want to say to the American people that we're at war with these terrorists and I am confident that we will prevail."
George W. Bush
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:04 pm
I hate to discuss this bastard--but when he said Americans--not Bush or Kerry--have the power to stop attacks--didn't it seem to you he meant at the voting polls?
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:09 pm
If he did he's dumber than we thought.
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kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:17 pm
nimh, nicely done.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:17 pm
Quote:
I think the admin is on top of the issue.


Yes, that would explain why bin Laden is alive and well and televising his message to the world.

Nice to know Bush is on top of this.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:29 pm
Democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq is OBL's worst nightmare.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:33 pm
Kerry is bin Laden's worse nightmare.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:35 pm
Democracy in Iraq? They haven't even VOTED for anything yet.

Laughing
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:36 pm
He seems to be stumping for Kerry...

He's borrowed Micheal Moore's copy.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 11:07 pm
Democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq is the US' worst nightmare.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 11:13 pm
Quote:
He seems to be stumping for Kerry...

He's borrowed Micheal Moore's copy.


And you seem to be reaching.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2004 11:39 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
Kerry is bin Laden's worse nightmare.


Laughing

".... I thought it was a wonderful story...you tell it so well, and with such enthusiasm."
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