Elizabeth Warren in 2018? Possible challengers?

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
I think democrats get labeled as being more about identity then they actually are. It's a deflection tactic used to help explain to Republican voters (who are something like 90% white people) why they aren't more diverse. "It's not our policies, it's the democrats playing to minorities"

What's your point?

The goal of these tactics is to win elections. The Republicans now have the White House, both Houses of Congress, pretty strong control of state legislatures and governors mansions.

The Republicans are winning on every level. We can argue about why they are winning... but that they are winning is an undeniable fact.

That they are currently winning, yes. Politics is a cycle though. After 12 years of republicans in the 80s, we had 8 of a democrat, then 8 of republicans, then 8 of a democrat.

I think THAT has much more to do with Trump's election than anything else.

And many of the "Republicans" that control governships are moderates, which is really nothing to worry about. If we had more moderates on both sides of the isle, we'd be better off IMO.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

The Republicans now have the White House, both Houses of Congress, pretty strong control of state legislatures and governors mansions.

I reiterate, that speaks volumes as to what America is about; what it is, what it has been, what it will be.

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@maxdancona,

You act like Clinton or Warren can control what their supporters say about them.

Remember when Warren was told to shut up and sit down in congress a few weeks ago. Look at news articles and read the comments sections and you'll see MANY charges of sexism.

Guess you'll have to change your opinion on her (to be consistent and all).

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@camlok,

I think you are deceiving yourself. This was a big defeat.

Hillary Clinton was running against Donald Trump. This is a man with the lowest approval rating of any winning candidate... many people who voted for him didn't like him. Even considering the fact that Hillary won the popular vote; Hillary only got 48% of the vote (to Trump's 46%) running against Donald Trump. She lost to Donald Trump.

There is no excuse here. She lost an election where most Americans didn't like either candidate... she is basically as popular as Donald Trump.

If the Democratic party wants to fix what is wrong (given that they are losing elections at every level of government) they are going to have to stop deceiving themselves.

If you don't win elections, nothing else matters.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

If you don't win elections, nothing else matters.

How machiavellian of you.

On the contrary. Being moral people matters a great deal more.

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@maporsche,

Elizabeth Warren is admirable because she has a core message of economic fairness that drives her. She talks about this message at every opportunity. She is consistent and dogged.

You can't say that about many other politicians.

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For the record (and I guess I care enough to say so) I have not thumbed down anyone on this thread. The downthumbs here are idiotic.

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@camlok,

I disagree, Camlok.

Being moral (however you define morality) is important as an individual.

But in politics, if you aren't winning, morality matters not one bit. Of course a candidate that can win with a platform you consider to be "moral" would be ideal.

That would be Elizabeth Warren in my book.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I have to disagree with you Max. 2.8 million more people voted for Clinton but republican gerrymandering won them the election just as the republican Supreme Court won for them in 2000. The republicans are better at cheating.

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@maxdancona,

They provide Americans, born and raised on 24 hour a day braying propaganda, with a quick way of avoiding reality when it hits.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

But in politics, if you aren't winning, morality matters not one bit.

That's exactly what has got the US into such a shitpot, but it has been going on for so long you all think it is completely natural.

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@tsarstepan,

Those damn A2K fascists! They're like ants at a picnic site.

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@camlok,

camlok wrote:

Speaking of fascists, Izzy.

Possibly people are puking their guts out over such premature talk.

I voted the thread back up.

Oh, we're puking our guts out alright, but not because of fear and loathing of Warren...just from laughing so hard over the notion that this thread has been attacked by fascists. Very Happy

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@Real Music,

Says it all about the Democrat Party.

Keep banging your head against that wall. It will feel so good when you stop.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

The way the scandals are breaking with even the Republicans calling for investigations, Trump might be lucky to get 8 more months.

Oh please.

What scandals?

Are you serious or do you simply feel the need to regularly drop a partisan turd?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
The way the scandals are breaking with even the Republicans calling for investigations, Trump might be lucky to get 8 more months.

The Democrats are screwing it up again... pulling defeat from the mouth of victory. I think that Trump not only survives, I think he gets two terms.

A voice in the wilderness. Your own thumbed you down for it.

You're right of course.

If the people who voted for Trump are disappointed in him in 2020, they aren't going to go running to a lefty harridan.

He gets two terms because there is no way the Dems will come to their senses by 2020. All this Resistance and Rebelllion BS has the sensible Dems scared shitless (see Chuck Schumer), but it will take another defeat to shake it off Dem sneakers.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote Finn:

Quote:

Oh please.

What scandals?

Are you serious or do you simply feel the need to regularly drop a partisan turd?

I'll start off slow, here's one that hasn't even received much attention.

Why did a Russian pay $95M to buy Trump’s Palm Beach mansion?
Originally published March 9, 2017 at 6:12 pm

http://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/d2a0d36a-0529-11e7-a621-509d6ee6d54e-640x411.jpg

A large water fountain is seen in the driveway of Donald Trump’s house in Palm Beach, Florida, that sold to Russian oligarch Dmitry Rybolovlev in 2008. (STEVE MITCHELL/AP)

By Alexandra Clough
and John Pacenti

PALM BEACH, Fla. — Why did a Russian oligarch pay now-President Donald Trump $95 million for his Palm Beach mansion?

Almost a decade later, the answer is less clear than it was at the time of the sale, the highest price paid for a Palm Beach home.

In 2008, Dmitry Rybolovlev bought the Palm Beach mansion owned by Trump for $13 million more than the most expensive Palm Beach mansion sale up to that moment. It’s been almost a decade since the sale, but the transaction is newsworthy again as new questions surround contacts between members of Trump’s administration and Russian government officials.

Last week, a Rybolovlev spokesman said his client, who made his fortune in fertilizer potash, purchased the former mansion at 515 N. County Road for his family’s trust.

“The property was acquired for investment purposes by the Rybolovlev family trust, as was clearly stated at the time of the purchase in 2008,” according to Brian Cattell, a New York-based spokesman for Rybolovlev.

But this is not what Rybolovlev’s representatives said in 2008, when Rybolovlev purchased the 62,000-square-foot mansion formerly known as Maison de L’Amitie, or House of Friendship.

In 2008, Rybolovlev characterized the purchase as a company investment: “This acquisition is simply an investment in real estate by one of the companies in which I have an interest,” Rybolovlev said at the time through a spokesman for Uralkali, the fertilizer company he previously owned.

Rybolovlev added that he didn’t plan to live in the United States.

Nonetheless, he went ahead and paid an exceptionally high, $50 million premium to Trump, then a real estate tycoon and reality TV host, for a property he never sought to live in, not even on a part-time basis.

It was a Rybolovlev entity, County Road Property LLC, that bought the property. Its ownership subsequently was transferred to a trust.

But not before Rybolovlev had disavowed any interest in the property during his messy divorce from now-ex-wife, Elena.

In her 2009 lawsuit, Elena said Dmitry “has a history of secreting and transferring assets in order to avoid his obligations” — including the payments to her as part of their divorce. As a result, she filed a legal action in Palm Beach County Circuit Court to claim her share of the Palm Beach mansion.

At the time, Rybolovlev was on the Forbes list of the world’s billionaires at No. 59, with an estimated net worth of $12.8 billion.

In 2011, court documents in his divorce stated that “Mr. Rybolovlev has not purchased or managed any real estate in Florida for investment purposes, either directly or indirectly,” according to a motion filed in the divorce case.

That was news to Trump.

“Somebody paid me $100 million,” Trump told a Palm Beach Post reporter in February 2011.

Trump made a hefty profit on the flip: He had scooped up the estate for $41.35 million in 2004 out of health-care magnate Abe Gosman’s bankruptcy filing. In essence, Trump sold for more than double what he had paid four years before.

Before the Trump sale, which at the time was the highest price paid for any single-family home in the country, the most expensive home sold on Palm Beach had been an estate at 1236 S. Ocean Blvd. That property traded hands for $81.5 million earlier in 2008.

Throughout the divorce litigation, Rybovlovlev gave his wife’s attorneys differing reasons for the mansion purchase, said David Newman, a partner with Sills, Cummis & Gross in New York.

At various times in court records, Rybolovlev said the house was for investment purposes, then said it would be for his children, or maybe an inheritance, or it might be used in connection with his daughter because she was an equestrian, according to Newman.

There’s also the issue of Rybolovlev’s marital status, “and whether he was trying to protect his assets in connection with a divorce-mode situation,” said Newman, who represented Elena.

Newman said he found the whole deal curious: “It was out of the ordinary because of the uniqueness of the property, the speed of the transaction,” and the fact that Newman’s team never was able to uncover any evidence that Rybolovlev had performed any professional reviews of the property.

“If someone is paying $90-something million, more than anyone else has ever paid for a private residence, one would think they might look around and do a little due diligence, or even have an inspection,” Newman said.

But Newman said his team never found any evidence Rybolovlev hired experts to weigh in on the property’s condition as a residence — or its value as a teardown — before he bought the place.

The Rybolovlevs’ divorce was finalized in 2014, with a record $4.8 billion awarded to Elena. That amount subsequently was slashed to $604 million by a judge in 2015, then later settled privately.

In addition to the mansion intrigue, Rybolovlev and Trump recently have drawn attention in another peculiar way.

Federal Aviation Administration records reviewed by The Palm Beach Post and other news outlets have tracked Rybolovlev’s private plane to cities where Trump has traveled, both during his campaign and into his presidency.

In October, for example, Trump appeared at a campaign rally in Las Vegas. Rybolovlev’s plane arrived in that city an hour after the campaign event started.

A month later, FAA records show Rybolovlev’s plane, an Airbus 319, also landed in Charlotte, North Carolina, 90 minutes before Trump’s plane arrived. Trump was scheduled to host a campaign event there that day — Nov. 3 — five days before the presidential election.

The latest juxtaposition of Trump’s and Rybolovlev’s aircrafts occurred last month, the weekend of Feb. 10-12, when the oligarch’s plane landed at Miami International Airport while Trump was at Mar-a-Lago entertaining Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Cattell said none of the conjectures about his client are true, including stories of the men perhaps having rendezvous before or after the election. Trump has said he has never met Rybolovlev, who was represented by a real estate broker in the mansion sale.

“We are aware of a number of rumors and far-fetched theories circulating, but none of them has any basis in fact,” Cattell said. “Mr. Rybolovlev has never met Donald Trump.”

As for Rybolovlev’s Palm Beach mansion, it’s been demolished and divided into three lots. The northernmost lot sold for $34.34 million, according to the Palm Beach Daily News.

The vacant property’s hefty price is proof the acquisition cost, although steep, was worth it, according to Cattell.

“Given the ongoing sale process … there is every chance the investment in the property will yield a good return,” Cattell said.

And even though Rybolovlev paid an astronomical $95 million for the house, Cattell said his client still got a good deal.

“The original asking price for the home was significantly higher than the price that was eventually paid, and that final price followed the back and forth of negotiation,” Cattell said.

In fact, the asking price was $100 million, cut from a previous sales price of $125 million after the property languished on the market for a couple of years with no takers.

When the deal finally closed, the sale was recorded at $95 million, down $5 million from the ask.
Alexandra Clough
John Pacenti Source

Russian oligarch paying Trump a record $95 Million in 2008, (the year the real estate recession hit, no less), for a house that the Russian then tore down. No payoffs going on there, hell no.

1 Reply

@Blickers,

None of this **** has legs and your know it.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

This is small potatoes, Finn. Don't you give it 4 out of 5 just for length?

9-11 had the legs wacked out from under it and you probably don't know it because you, like most people, are scared to death to face up to the truth.

It is not small potatoes.

Hundreds of millions have had their lives destroyed and not many kind, benevolent Americans seem to care. Same ole, same ole.

1 Reply

@camlok,

camlok wrote:

This is small potatoes, Finn. Don't you give it 4 out of 5 just for length?

9-11 had the legs wacked out from under it and you probably don't know it because you, like most people, are scared to death to face up to the truth.

It is not small potatoes.

Hundreds of millions have had their lives destroyed and not many kind, benevolent Americans seem to care. Same ole, same ole.

Your left-wing positions alone won't earn you an "ignore" from me, but this 9/11 conspiracy **** just did it.

1 Reply

Elizabeth Warren in 2018? Possible challengers?

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