Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:10 am
No ... it was a very good speech. You wouldn't have liked it, though, because he didn't sound moronic or inept. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:13 am
Ticomaya wrote:
No ... it was a very good speech. You wouldn't have liked it, though, because he didn't sound moronic or inept. Very Happy


appearances can be deceiving......even at the republican convention it would seem......
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:34 am
Basically, every one of these statements I read about W. sounds pretty much like:

Quote:

You know, a president should sound like a Shakspearean actor, or a duke or earl, or like one of those fine-sounding orators who you hear when you listen to parliamentary debates on CSPAN. In fact, that's what ALL democrats sound like, all the time, even when they're dead drunk all the time like Ted Kennedy, f**ked up on cocaine like Slick Clinton, and in fact even mentally retarded democrats sound like that, but this George Bush sounds like some sort of a hayseed bumpkin from Muskogee Oklahoma or something. How in hell's a guy like that supposed to be president?


The answer, of course, is that the dems had their shot at proving to the entire world that George W. Bush was a bumpkin unfit for the presidency.

There were three nationally televised debates between George W. Bush, the bumpkin, and Albert Gore, supposedly the epitome of couth, suavite, polish, refinement, erudition and all that sort of thing and in theory at least, so great an orator and so masterful an artist in debate, that people were referring to him as the "masterdebater" at the time.

And guess what happened? That's right: Algor came off in those debates as such a total bumbling oaf that the American people said no way and elected George W. Bush president.

And then four years later, we have three more debates between W and a guy who actually was some sort of a debate champion in college and is clearly a better speaker than W, and the general concensus is that after losing the first debate after having had a very difficult day prior to the debate itsself, W came back and won the final two.

Isn't that something?
0 Replies
 
Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:38 am
gungasnake wrote:
the general concensus is that after losing the first debate after having had a very difficult day prior to the debate itsself, W came back and won the final two.


So,

what's the weather like on Mars?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:41 am
I said the general concensus, not the general concensus on able2know...
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:43 am
Gunga, of the polls I saw after the debates there was a consensus that Kerry won all three debates.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:55 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Gunga, of the polls I saw after the debates there was a consensus that Kerry won all three debates.


There is no consensus - either way. IMO ... I think Bush clearly won the last debate, both on style and substance; the second was a push, Kerry winning style and Bush taking the substance points; and Bush won neither style nor substance in the first.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:56 am
You disagree with the vast majority of experts and citizens in this country, Tico in your assessment that Bush won anything in any debate this cycle.

You have a right to your opinion; just as long as you realize that the majority of experts out there, backed up by the general opinions of those who watched the debate, that say that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:10 am
If you look at the issues, and defend in what you believe, Bush won all three debates.

Only "progressives" would think Kerry won. Progressives are a cancer on our society.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:17 am
Jesus was a progressive. Was he a cancer on society? I want your honest answer.

Quote:
If you look at the issues, and defend in what you believe, Bush won all three debates.


So, if you support Bush then he won all three debates. With this statement, you have clearly displayed your ignorance of how debates are judged.

Why don't you go polish a gun and leave the politics to people who understand them?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:21 am
Nobody understands politics cyclops. If you claim to, you only show your own ignorance.

I choose based on issues that are dear to me. If you allow your vote to vary based on style points, you've got serious issues.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:26 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Jesus was a progressive. Was he a cancer on society? I want your honest answer.


Jesus might have been a progressive, but he wasn't a criminal or a mafiosi, meaning that there's no reason to think he'd ever vote for a democrat. He never advocated buying votes with cocaine, knock and drag, carnal knowledge of teenage interns, or anything like that.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:30 am
Being an agnostic, I'm not gonna comment on Jesus.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:33 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You disagree with the vast majority of experts and citizens in this country, Tico in your assessment that Bush won anything in any debate this cycle.

You have a right to your opinion; just as long as you realize that the majority of experts out there, backed up by the general opinions of those who watched the debate, that say that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Cycloptichorn


No, I disagree with all the polls that were taken after the debates. I don't put much stock in polls, nor do I give a whit whether I disagree with "the vast majority of experts," although I take issue with your premise. There are a good number of "experts" who agree with me. What qualifies one as an "expert" exactly?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:35 am
Also an Agnositc. nice to know we have something in common.

Quote:
Nobody understands politics cyclops. If you claim to, you only show your own ignorance.


I believe this is a commonly used phrase among those who don't understand politics; you can't understand the way the system works, so you claim noone does. To do otherwise would admit your ignorace, so I don't blame you.

Quote:
I choose based on issues that are dear to me. If you allow your vote to vary based on style points, you've got serious issues.


How you vote, and who won the debates, are two different things. You can clearly support every position Bush had and still agree that he did not perform well in the debates.

I guess I would say that if you don't understand that, you don't understand politics, but we've already covered that....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:42 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You disagree with the vast majority of experts and citizens in this country, Tico in your assessment that Bush won anything in any debate this cycle.

You have a right to your opinion; just as long as you realize that the majority of experts out there, backed up by the general opinions of those who watched the debate, that say that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Cycloptichorn


No, I disagree with all the polls that were taken after the debates. I don't put much stock in polls, nor do I give a whit whether I disagree with "the vast majority of experts," although I take issue with your premise. There are a good number of "experts" who agree with me. What qualifies one as an "expert" exactly?


But if one is to claim that there is a 'consensus' about who won the debates, how would one back that claim up? It seems to me that looking at polls, however unreliable, is the only way you can make a guess as to what that consensus could be.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:44 am
The previous post was regarding gunga's claim, btw.

gungasnake wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Jesus was a progressive. Was he a cancer on society? I want your honest answer.


Jesus might have been a progressive, but he wasn't a criminal or a mafiosi, meaning that there's no reason to think he'd ever vote for a democrat. He never advocated buying votes with cocaine, knock and drag, carnal knowledge of teenage interns, or anything like that.


You like to make sweeping generalisations. So now only criminals and mafiosi vote democratic? You need to meet some new people...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:54 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You disagree with the vast majority of experts and citizens in this country, Tico in your assessment that Bush won anything in any debate this cycle.

You have a right to your opinion; just as long as you realize that the majority of experts out there, backed up by the general opinions of those who watched the debate, that say that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Cycloptichorn


No, I disagree with all the polls that were taken after the debates. I don't put much stock in polls, nor do I give a whit whether I disagree with "the vast majority of experts," although I take issue with your premise. There are a good number of "experts" who agree with me. What qualifies one as an "expert" exactly?


But if one is to claim that there is a 'consensus' about who won the debates, how would one back that claim up? It seems to me that looking at polls, however unreliable, is the only way you can make a guess as to what that consensus could be.


I believe I understand the point you're trying to make, but how can an unreliable poll be a reliable indicator of what the consensus is?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 11:01 am
Well, you take a wide sampling of polls and average them together in order to get the best picture you can of what the consensus is. The most unreliable polls on either side should cancel each other out.

Using ANY standard of empirical measurement, Kerry won all three of his debates. Cheney won (or at least tied) his. To disagree with this is to disagree with methodology and scientific method; this is perfectly fine with me, as long as one is willing to admit that their views are based on pure opinion and not worth sh*t in a debate.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 11:04 am
Nobody polled me....
0 Replies
 
 

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