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Views of the US election from non-US folk

 
 
msolga
 
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 03:00 am
So you're interested in the US election, but are observing it from another country?
What is your media saying about the election?
How will the outcome affect your country's interests & priorities?
What do you & the people you talk to think of it all?
Any predictions?
What do you make of it all?


Only a few days to go! Shocked
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 18,358 • Replies: 430
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 03:02 am
Cartoonist, Petty's view in today's AGE (Melbourne, Oz.)


http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/10/24/25s_cartoon_gallery__550x398,0.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 03:06 am
... be back later with views from the opinion pages & letters from Oz newspapers.
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Thok
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 03:15 am
In Vienna/A the media are actually neutral.

The German papers means ,that in general no matter who wins the election there will be no change in foreign policy. But if Kerry wins, he will ask for multi national troops. Among other also Germany, but Chancellor Schroeder said that no German soldier will enter Iraq.
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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 04:16 am
Norwegian papers do what they do in norwegian elections, although not to the same extent. We get comparison lists of the issues, as well as some analysis on the two candidates policy. And then there's the occasional joke about how dumb americans must be seing as how they really only have two parties, and still don't know where their candidates stand on the issues. (and on television our comedians are working overtime) There's also a general sense of disgust at how the campaigning avoids touching on any issues.

How will the election result affect Norwegian policy? Well, the our current government seamed sort of positive about the Iraq war prior to the war, but made sure to stress the need for a second UN resolution to logitimise the war to counter attacks from the left. When the US then went to war, the official Norwegian position was that the weaponsinspectors should have been allowed more time. In the event that Hussein did play games with the weapons inspectors as the US claimed he would, international support for a war would increase, and a second UN resolution would have been possible to obtain. Norway therefore opposed the war, although the right wing party in our coalition government publicly supported it. The government tried to sneak off some soldiers to Iraq to help with reconstruction efforts, but the opposition got on it, and with a vast majority of the population against the Iraq war, the government gave in, and withdrew the troops almost the day they arrived. 10 soldiers are still stationed there, because their duties can not be trusted to anyone else (meaning the right wing of our government threw a tantrum, and demanded to be on Bush's list). The government is routinely attacked for being in Iraq, and is trying to shore up support by saying something along the lines of "The war in Iraq may have been a mistake, but nothing comes from crying over spilt milk, and all we can do now is make the best of it. (stressing the need to stabilize Iraq)" and "we are not there to support the americans, we are there to support the Iraqis". Some people might buy that if our presence there was more than just symbolic.

Anyway, every time the government politicians have made some kind of compelling argument about the importance of not letting Iraq slip into anarchy, Bush will appear on the news getting defensive about the case for war, repelling anyone the politicians might have won over. The arguments of the left in this country goes less along the lines of "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time", than it does along the lines of "your war, your bill, your casualties", playing to the public sentiment that Iraq was a personal vendetta of Bush's.

I belive that in the absence of Bush as an effective repellant of pro war sentiment our government would increase our contribution in Iraq beyond the purely symbolic.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 05:01 am
Bookmark!
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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 05:11 am
msolga wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/10/24/25s_cartoon_gallery__550x398,0.jpg


Yeah, we get a lot of those too.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 05:14 am
Heehee - found this on Wired: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65451,00.html?tw=rss.TOP

World Weighs in on U.S. Prez Race


03:24 PM Oct. 24, 2004 PT

ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia -- Satellites and telephone wires bring the battle for the White House to an internet cafe 7,200 miles away in Addis Ababa, capital of Ethiopia, where Girma Hagos goes for his daily dose of U.S. election news.

"What happens in America affects us all," the 66-year-old leather exporter said as he sat at a computer. He backs Democratic challenger John Kerry, saying: "I think he will show more interest in Africa."


Today's the Day. Through the internet and satellite television, the world can watch as never before and -- on a myriad of websites -- virtually back their preferred candidate.

In Ethiopia, 90 percent of people are too poor to have access to television or the internet, but there is enough middle-class interest in American politics for state-owned television to offer daily coverage of the race in four languages.

And many people elsewhere around the globe watched the presidential debates live on television or on the web -- the main forum for non-Americans with no vote on Nov. 2. They can register a preference on websites such as the World Peace Society, offering a "U.S. Election for the Rest of The World."

"Let's help the U.S. figure out who their president should be. Lord knows they spend a lot of time 'helping' other countries with theirs," says the site.

Kerry led with 44 percent of the more than 10,000 votes cast on the Australia-based site as of Oct. 19, while President Bush had just over 5 percent. Independent Ralph Nader, who in real polls scores in the low single digits, had 39 percent of the internet vote.

Non-Americans can also lobby Americans living abroad to vote by absentee ballot at Tell an American to Vote. Other campaigners are calling for a boycott of companies that fund the Republican Party and for alternative "U.S. Presidential Elections for Another World" on Nov. 2.

The makeshift elections are planned in Brussels and Ghent in Belgium, London, Barcelona and Ibiza in Spain, Budapest in Hungary, and in Brazil, said Pol D'Huyvetter, a Belgian organizer.

In Germany, the website of the Munich-based newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung allows readers to test whether they are "Bush or Kerry types," while the Tagesspiegel daily invites them to an online election game.

And for a humorous approach, try Drunk Against Bush. It invites visitors to register every pint of intake as a protest against the president, a teetotaler who renounced alcohol after concluding he was drinking too much.

"Some people demonstrate, some make movies and others terrorize when they are unhappy with something. We, the supporters of the DAB initiative, are drinking our way to a just and fair world," it says.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 05:24 am
Hello God, it's George here

October 25, 2004/ the AGE


The leader of the free world has some firm words with the Almighty. By Terry Jones.

"George?"

"Yes?"

"This is God here . . ."

"Hi, God. What can I do for you?"

"I want you to stop this Iraq thing, George."

"But you told me to do it, God!"

"No, I didn't, George . . ."

"But you did! You spoke to me through Karl, Rumsey and Dick and all those other really clever guys!"

"How did you know it was me talking, George?"

"Instinct, God. I just knew it!"

"Do you really think I'd want you to unleash all this horror and bloodshed on another lot of human beings?"

"But they're Muslims! They don't believe in You, God!"

"But, George, they do believe in me. Jews, Christians and Moslems all worship the same Me! Didn't you do comparative theology at school, George?"

"No, of course not! You think I'm some sort of peace-waving dope-headed liberal faggot-lover, God?"

"No, of course not, George, but I expect you to know something about the people you're bombing."

"Oh, come on! I know it's right to bomb those oily rag-heads until there's not one left to wipe a wrench on!"

"How do you know that, George?"

"Cause You tell me that's what I should do, God."

"George, I do not tell you to do that!"

"But I hear You, God! You speak to me! You tell me what to do! You tell me what is Right and what is Wrong! That's why I don't need to listen to any soft-baked, mealy-mouthed liberal Kerry-pickers!"

"George, you're deluding yourself."

"God! How can you say that? I got some of the most powerful people on this planet down on their knees every day in the White House just a-praying to You! Now are you gonna tell me You ain't listening? Because if You ain't listening, God, that's Your problem - not mine!"

"George, of course I'm listening - it's you who is not listening to Me!"

"And I'll tell you why! 'Cause You ain't addressing me right."

"What d'you mean, you jumped-up little Ivy League draft-dodger?"

"If you're so 'omniscient', God, you oughta know that you gotta go through Karl Rove, John Ashcroft, Rumsey and Dick . . . those fellas know what they're talking about! I can't listen to just any deity who can pick up the phone!"

"But, I'm God, George!"

"Does Karl say you are?"

"But why do you believe Karl?"

"Because my gut tells me he's right!"

"Listen, you ignorant little pinch-eyed Billy Graham convert! Can't you get it into your head that I'm God and I'm telling you to stop all this 'pre-emptive strike' nonsense! Stop destroying Iraq! Stop supporting that monster Sharon! Stop picking a fight with the only other human beings on the planet that believe in Me! You're leading the world into unbelievable chaos and horror!"

"That's enough, God! That's just the sort of defeatist crap that I won't allow in the White House! Get out of here!"

"I cannot believe I'm hearing this, George."

"Well you better start believing, God, because this is the new reality. Don'tcha know that a recent Gallup poll shows that 42 per cent of Americans identify themselves as 'born again'? That cuts across Republicans and Democrats, rich and poor, white and black! This is a real political power base, God, and you'd better believe it!"

"Look, all I'm asking is for you to show a little compassion to your fellow human beings!"

"I'm not going to debate this with you, God! You're beginning to sound like you belong to the reality-based community!"

"What the hell does that mean?"

"Well by the 'reality-based community', we mean people who believe that solutions emerge from their judicious study of discernible reality."

"Sounds fair enough . . ."

"But, as one of my advisers told The Wall Street Journal: 'The reality-based community is not the way the world really works any more. We're an empire now and, when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study, too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'."

"You mean . . . you don't give a damn, George?"

"I mean You speak through me, God, not the other way round! Is that clear?"

"Yes, Mr President."

`

Terry Jones (www.terry-jones.net) is a writer, film director, actor and Python. This article first appeared in The Guardian, London.
0 Replies
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 05:31 am
msolga wrote:

Terry Jones (www.terry-jones.net) is a writer, film director, actor and Python. This article first appeared in The Guardian, London.


There it is the original comment.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 05:47 am
From the Australian newspaper:


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,360408,00.jpg
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 06:18 am
A little thread I started a while ago (which died on it's arse). (Hopefully this one won't though.) :wink:

As an outsider, the US presidential elections seem like a bit of a circus to me. But people say that about our parlimetary debates so perhaps I can't comment. The general elections here tend to stay away from personal attacks and the personalities of the candidates (most of the time), and focus more on the other issues of governance. Again however, because we get only a selection of the news from the US, perhaps the media here only shows us the "juicy" bits. From what I've read & viewed, the main media outlets have been impartial in their coverage and refrained from commenting on who deserves to win. Most are covering themselves by saying just that it is too close to call.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 06:42 am
http://home.iprimus.com.au/laurapalmer/images/books/bpc%202.jpg
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 06:54 am
Post from 5 Oct on the bookie thread:

nimh wrote:
Just what you wanted to know: a poll update about who the Dutch want to win! Unbelievably, one polling agency is surveying the Dutch people's preference for the US presidential elections about every week now ... not that much changes over time.

The state of October 4, compared to last week:

Kerry 76% (+6)
Bush 15% (-1)

Don't know 9% (-5)

Interestingly, the poll has internals that break down the numbers by supporters of the seven main Dutch parties. Now this is telling. The supporters of every single party, from the far-left Socialists all the way up to the List Pim Fortuyn on the right, in majority want Kerry to win. Absolute majorities, that is, over 50%. Here's the list, from left to right:

Supporters of ..
Socialist Party: Kerry 94%, Bush 2%
Green Left: Kerry 92%, Bush 3%
Labour Party: Kerry 92%, Bush 3%
Democrats '66: Kerry 86%, Bush 12%
Christian-Democrats: Kerry 59%, Bush 25%
PFD (Conservative liberals): Kerry 75%, Bush 16%
List Pim Fortuyn: Kerry 55%, Bush 31%

Interesting ... the Conservative liberals are usually considered to be significantly to the right of the Christian-Democrats, eg on market reforms, nationalism/immigrants, law&order, hawkish foreign policy etc. But apparently they have even less patience for Bush than the Christian-Democrats do. Must be the religion thing.

<looks up> Heh.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 06:57 am
That is SCARILY good, Gus!!! Lol - and chuck...
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 06:58 am
Exactly, Gus, exactly! <sigh>
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 07:01 am
Supporters of ..
Socialist Party: Kerry 94%, Bush 2%
Green Left: Kerry 92%, Bush 3%
Labour Party: Kerry 92%, Bush 3%
Democrats '66: Kerry 86%, Bush 12%
Christian-Democrats: Kerry 59%, Bush 25%
PFD (Conservative liberals): Kerry 75%, Bush 16%
List Pim Fortuyn: Kerry 55%, Bush 31%


That's interesting, nimh. Very enlightened, the Dutch!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 07:09 am
Grand Duke wrote:
... As an outsider, the US presidential elections seem like a bit of a circus to me ...


Me, too, Grand Duke .... The conventions, the huge rallies with the adoring party faithful! It's like show biz! All that razzmatazz! Oz campaigns are much more subdued affairs. We would NEVER get that excited over politicians: We know they're all liars & to take everything they say with a grain of salt! Laughing
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 07:17 am
It would be fascinating, if Kerry won, to see how this would effect the policies of Blair in the UK & Howard in Oz. It would be wonderful to have a more enlightened approach to Iraq, the world ....
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2004 07:27 am
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,360866,00.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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