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Was Pres.Bush Involved in 9/11 Attacks?

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:55 pm
I live five miles from the pentagon. Around 10 AM on 9-11, they told everybody working in D.C. to go home. Knowing I'd never get across the 14'th st. bridge I rode (on an old BMW RT800 I was using to commute at the time) over the S. Capitol St. bridge out to the Wilson bridge and back into Alexandria that way. You could see the smoke even from the Wilson bridge and closer in it was surreal. The smoke was rising in torrents all day, hardly what you'd expect if a Cessna flew into the place.

There were firemen and engines from scores of regional fire departments, D.C., Md. and Va., hundreds of them. If ANYTHING were other than has been put out, those guys would ALL have seen it and there'd be no such thing in this world as keeping them all quiet about it.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 12:20 am
In case you really do want to know (as opposed to rhetorical questions)....

Dookiestix wrote:
I still would like to know why there was hardly ANY wreckage from a 757 found at the Pentagon on 9/11


First of all, what is most relevant is that wreckage from a 757 was found.

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/274/debris.jpg

When you say "hardly any" what do you have in mind? Do you suggest that there was an less than there should have been? And if so, what is the basis of this claim?

Quote:
...as well as why the F.B.I. conviscated all the recording devices from various gas stations and corner markets that filmed the attack.


I am not aware of the particulars of your claim, but this is not uncommon in criminal investigations. This is part of a procedue in which law enforcement collects evidence.

Quote:
Why did they cover the lawn so fast?


I suspect you are referring to the old "sand over the lawn" claim.

In reality, sand and gravel were used to create a path for trucks on the lawn.

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/8945/trucks.jpg

Quote:
Why do many eye witness reports indicate that it was a much smaller plane that flew into the Pentagon and in a section that was going through a restoration.


What "eyewitnesses" do you speak of? We can discuss their accounts should you decide to bring them to the table.

As to the second part of your question, the entire Pentagon had been undergoing a rennovation (not "restoration'') since 1993. Unless the previous administration was in on this conspiracy this (the decision to reinforce the walls) can't reasonably be held to be a factor.

The purpose was to fortify the limestone walls with steel.

Quote:
There are SO many questions yet to be answered. Why haven't we heard from any of these witnesses on national television?


What witnesses are you saying we didn't hear from? I ask because without knowing whom you speak of this is like asking "where are the elephants we can't see".

Quote:
And just WHY haven't the Bush cabal not filed a counter suit against Mr. Hilton?


If this caliber of suit were filed against me, I'd simply allow courts to toss it out and not dignify it with more than passing consideration on my part.

In the realm of public opinion only a low percentage would subscribe to such theories, and would likely do so regardless of any inconveniences such as facts.

You can find more info at Snopes.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:23 am
I have to agree with Craven and gunga. I lived in Arlington at that time -- about 2 miles from the pentagon and was eating my breakfast on my front porch when the plane flew overhead. It was definitely an airliner. I was used to hearing planes as national airport is also very close. That was definitely a large plane and it was definitely very low.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 09:50 am
Craven de Kere:

First of all, I suggest you actually read the links and watch the flash film (if you can), and then get back to your questions. It's obvious that you didn't.

Quite frankly, Snopes doesn't even come close to answering the myriad question regarding the Pentagon hit. Like the missing video captures from various gas stations and corner marts taken by the F.B.I. which we have never seen. Why? Where's the information from the black boxes recovered by the F.B.I.?

Like I said, I'm not a big buff on conspiracy theories. But I've always wondered why certain questions have just never been answered. And these are questions that snopes does not address. And why Bush would be against a 9/11 commission.

I just always thought that such an attack on the U.S. would be thoroughly vetted with the American people, like Pearl Harbor was.

By the way, Craven de Kere, I really like your avatar. I've always been a huge Star Trek fan, especially the original show.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 09:56 am
Another thing about the conspiracy debunkers is that much of the information they use in debunking the "conspiracy" is from the....

...F.B.I.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 09:59 am
Dookie: Bush was probably initially against a "9/11 commission" because he knew it would be chock full of partisanship finger-pointing, like it was. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the equivalent "Pearl Harbor commission" formed following WWII?

The Snopes report answered all the questions I had.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:01 am
Quote:
The Snopes report answered all the questions I had.


That's interesting, as there are SO many questions yet to be answered. It seems as though partisanship has limited your scope of inquiry.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:02 am
And let's keep in mind that the 9/11 commission was as politically driven as just about everything else in this country, so the complete truth can never be revealed (IMO).
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:18 am
How clever of the Boeing 757 to contract itself
to half its length and then simply vanish.


http://www.serendipity.li/wot/visites8.jpg
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:41 am
Dookie wrote:
That's interesting, as there are SO many questions yet to be answered. It seems as though partisanship has limited your scope of inquiry.


And expanded yours ...

Dookie wrote:
How clever of the Boeing 757 to contract itself
to half its length and then simply vanish.


Did you see any of the footage of the planes flying into the Twin Towers? Did you notice how the buildings seemed to just swallow them up? The hole that the impacts left did not seem large enough to have been caused by an airliner, but they were. I'm not a structural engineer, but I'm sure there is an explanation for this phenomenon.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:46 am
Why are we discussing this? It was a 757, all right.

The important question is, did GWB and people close to him know it was due?

If you see the film Fahrenheit 911, you will see GWBs reaction when he was told the news- or rather you won't, because he had no reaction.

Why didn't he act surprised, or even a little bit upset? Guilt? Confusion? Something un-presidential, at any rate. I think he already knew.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:49 am
I think you conspiracy theorists need to figure out which is the real conspiracy here ...
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:53 am
Quote:
not a structural engineer, but I'm sure there is an explanation for this phenomenon.


I think that's the point. Neither am I a structural engineer, and Snopes doesn't seem to refer to anyone as such to comment on this. I just haven't heard a satisfactory explanation, as there are more questions than answers (IMO).

But if there is additional footage that can be seen regarding the crash, then why can't we see it? Why can't we know with certainty what's in the black box?

Quote:
Why didn't he act surprised, or even a little bit upset? Guilt? Confusion? Something un-presidential, at any rate.


I couldn't agree with you more on that one McTag.
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:55 am
Re: Was Pres.Bush Involved in 9/11 Attacks?
rainforest wrote:
Stanley G. Hilton has filed a class action lawsuit in Federal court in Northern California against against high officials in the current Bush administration (including the federal government, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Mueller, Tenet, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft), for complicity in aiding and abetting and facilitating the Sep. 11, 2001 attacks.

His suit contends, and we strongly concur, that the defendants did so in order to launch unconstitutional aggressive war against the sovereign states of Afghanistan and Iraq, declare political opponents "enemy combatants," suspend the Constitution indefinitely, etc., all for sordid political ends which subvert the very system of laws and Constitution the defendants have sworn to uphold in their offices.

The suit alleges that Bush, as President, violated the US Constitution by deliberately lying to - and defrauding - the US Congress into passing an "Enabling Act" resolution in October 2002, authorizing Bush to wage aggressive war on Iraq. The war is unconstitutional and an illegal drain on the US taxpayers' funds in the treasury. The suit alleges the Iraq war is unconstitutional and that declaratory and injunctive relief should be ordered. It is unconstitutional and illegal because the president violated the Separation of Powers provisions of the Constitution by deliberately lying to the Congress by falsely assuring them that Bush had evidence of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq, and that Iraq was involved in plotting and carrying out the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade center TwinTowers and the PentagonAttack - attacks actually orchestrated by defendants. The suit also alleges that the USA PatriotAct I and PatriotAct2 are unconstitutional and must be struck down as such, because they violate the fourth, fifth, ninth and first amendments to the US Constitution, by permitting the government to spy on Americans and violate their rights to privacy, and because the Patriot Acts, like the war in Iraq, were passed under false and fraudulent circumstances presented by defendants to the Congress.

The suit argues that to the extent that the US Constitution is legally analogous to a "contract" between the government and the plaintiffs (taxpayers), it seems that deliberate fraud by defendants should nullify any unconstitutional acts by them, such as the aggressive war and occupation of Iraq and the Patriot Acts.

The Plaintiffs believe they have the right to bring this suit as American citizens and that they face an imminent threat to their freedom from defendants, arising out of the entire orchestrated scenario of 9/11, the PA laws that were passed as a proximate result of 9/11, and the actions of defendants in infringing on their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

911review.org strongly supports Stanley Hilton's courageous actions to hold the officials responsible for the 9/11 massacres liable to punishment, and to repeal the FraudulentLegislation such as the PatriotAct.

Hilton is persisting in this legal action despite threats to his life and we call on all our readers to support his actions by all means necessary. Please donate generously to the 911VictimsLegalFund.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Stanley Hilton's Lawsuit Documented





I think that Bush drove one of the vans into the parking deck under the WTC when Clinton was in office to make him look bad too. Maybe he had something to do with the OK federal building...... Please, there hasn't been a president in the history of America that would allow something like this to happen if given enough information to stop it, not Clinton, not Nixon, not even Carter.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 10:56 am
Quote:
I think you conspiracy theorists need to figure out which is the real conspiracy here ...


Which leads me to refer to my second post in this thread:

Quote:
Or is the conspiracy theory cleverly all made up to hide a much more heinous conspiracy theory?


In that sense, you may be right, Ticomaya.
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 11:48 am
McTag wrote:
Why are we discussing this? It was a 757, all right.

The important question is, did GWB and people close to him know it was due?

If you see the film Fahrenheit 911, you will see GWBs reaction when he was told the news- or rather you won't, because he had no reaction.

Why didn't he act surprised, or even a little bit upset? Guilt? Confusion? Something un-presidential, at any rate. I think he already knew.


Maybe he thought that it was for the best to sit until the Secret service checked the best routes to get the leader of the free world out of harms way? What kind of message would he have given to those kids if he had of jumped up and ran out of the room? Or maybe yelled like Howard Dean? What would you have done? What should he have done? I think that he looked upset, or shocked the same as you and I did but at that moment all of the details where still coming in.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 12:20 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
How clever of the Boeing 757 to contract itself
to half its length and then simply vanish.




You're claiming airplanes should be able to hit granite walls at 300 mph and remain intact?

If that were the case, then the guys on the carriers at Okinawa and the phillipines should have been able to save a few of the Japanese kamikaze planes as souvenirs. Where are they?
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 12:30 pm
gungasnake wrote:
Dookiestix wrote:
How clever of the Boeing 757 to contract itself
to half its length and then simply vanish.




You're claiming airplanes should be able to hit granite walls at 300 mph and remain intact?

If that were the case, then the guys on the carriers at Okinawa and the phillipines should have been able to save a few of the Japanese kamikaze planes as souvenirs. Where are they?


Coca-cola bougt themto use as cans.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 12:31 pm
Quote:
If that were the case, then the guys on the carriers at Okinawa and the phillipines should have been able to save a few of the Japanese kamikaze planes as souvenirs. Where are they?


What kind of a bizarre anology is that?
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 12:33 pm
Sorry I wanted to see how many things I could do wrong in one post.
0 Replies
 
 

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