Do I have a moral obligation to pay for a girl when we go on a date, even if I don't think she is going to stick around?
(A little background) Met a girl that goes to my college and we've been talking for a little bit. We have been going on some dates and I have been paying (which is not always cheap and I don't really have any income because of school). After we go on a date typically she comes back to my dorm and you can figure out the rest. But she doesn't seem like she is going to stick around for long.
Now Im putting this in the scope of my situation but this question hits on many topics and I feel it is worthwhile to get some opinions.
Thanks for your opinion.
It may a local etiquette thing or it may be that you've both gotten into the bad habit of assuming that you will pay for all dates.
Be honest. Let her know that you can't afford to pay for her all the time. She should have stepped up on this already. If she isn't willing to pay her share or isn't willing to do free things (free concerts/museums/art gallery visits etc) cut her loose. You don't need someone like that in your life.
If she is only willing to have sex with you because you're paying for dates, she's not much of a friend.
She (and you) should only be having sex together because it's enjoyable/fun.
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I don't think that how long she's going to be around should factor into this in any way.
I agree with EhBeth that it has nothing to do with morals. I disagree with her about what a sexual relationship should be. There are many different types of sexual relationship and what it "should be" is up to the people involved.
If your relationship is an exachange of dates (you pay for) for sex... and both of you are happy with that arrangement, I don't see anything wrong with that. It is likely more complicated that that.
But if paying for dates is an important part of this woman having sex with you, is that OK to you?
If you are looking for something more than that, then you should talk to her openly.
Do I have a moral obligation to pay for a girl when we go on a date, even if I don't think she is going to stick around?
(A little background) Met a girl that goes to my college and we've been talking for a little bit. We have been going on some dates and I have been paying (which is not always cheap and I don't really have any income because of school). After we go on a date typically she comes back to my dorm and you can figure out the rest. But she doesn't seem like she is going to stick around for long.
Now Im putting this in the scope of my situation but this question hits on many topics and I feel it is worthwhile to get some opinions.
Thanks for your opinion.
Without looking at any responses, I have some ideas around this topic.
There is a bit of movement on this topic driven by the third wave feminists on equality and obligatory response to dating and who pays.
The norm has always been, whom ever asks for the date, pays. However mutual respect can pop in and things can be split. (My opinion is that the cost should always be split so there is no possible concern over obligatory sex).
However; if you say you want to pay then that's different. I've paid for dates before but mostly because I like to challenge social norms. Also if I'm the one asking, then I'll pay. Its also to test guys reactions to that offer.
But one thing is, why should it matter if she sticks around? It almost sounds like you think this relationship should be an investment and if she's not in it for the long haul then it's a waste to spend money on her doing things? Are you saying you are not enjoying yourself on these dates? You are only taking her out as an investment opportunity?
Maybe that's why she's not feeling long term. She senses you aren't enjoying the dates. Maybe you make scowel faces when the bill comes. Or you are boring.
Re my first love, both of us were from money strapped families, both going to the free university, me working a lot of hours off campus, which was not recommended back then, plus bus rides. He rode his bike across the mountain pass to go to class or to visit me. Once in a while, he got his family car. I have funny to me police stories.
This was not a long romance, but a worthwhile one.
He took me to see local mountains that climbers used, took me to see art.
I appreciate the memories, still respect him.
Oddly, I, the sometimes enthusiastic food person, do not remember any particular meals at restaurants, much less, which of us paid. That was still in the early sixties.
Later, mostly guys paid, a social norm then, this in '74.
My husband and I met in an unusual situation, us artists with a gallery subleased to their theater group. I had a university salary, he worked odd jobs. In our married life, we bounced back and forth relative to what was going on for each us re income. He was generous when we split, gave me the house, which he didn't have to. Would that I could have kept it (I tried).
Moral obligation for a date, you must be kidding re the who pays thing. That varies among individuals. Obligation re long time relationship, arguable. Marriage? see a counsellor.
The norm has always been, whom ever asks for the date, pays. However mutual respect can pop in and things can be split. (My opinion is that the cost should always be split so there is no possible concern over obligatory sex).
The norm has been that the man always asks for the first couple of dates, so maybe this is a moot point..
But, I don't believe this has ever been the norm (until very recently). I am a single middle-aged man in the Northeast dating professional women... there is often a presumption that the man will pay for the first couple of dates. Sometimes women will offer to split, but quite often they don't.
0 Replies
Medusax
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Sat 28 Jan, 2017 08:23 am
@Loganz97,
I think it depends on the people involved. I always paid my own way. Even with my husband until we were married and it was our money. It levels the playing field, so to speak.
I've been paying my share of meals/event tickets since I started dating in the 1970's. Can't imagine it any other way. The only time someone else pays is if it's some kind of business thing.
I am curious if you are currently dating (i.e. single and going out with more than one man) EhBeth.
If you are, I am curious how many men offer to pay. I would be that even in 2017, the majority of men will offer to pay for the first date.
In my experience, things work best if I (as a man) assume I am paying for the first few dates. Some women will offer to split the bill. Some women will refuse to let me pay. Many women will just let me pay with nothing more than a "thanks".
It really is up to the woman. EhBeth, I am curious is your experience is differen than that. My experience is that men who don't offer to pay will sooner or later end up in an awkward social situation... and many of us don't like awkward social situations.
0 Replies
Loganz97
2
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Sat 28 Jan, 2017 02:43 pm
@ehBeth,
Thanks for the response! You bring up a lot of very good points.
0 Replies
Loganz97
2
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Sat 28 Jan, 2017 02:45 pm
@maxdancona,
Yeah, I see what you are saying. But no I don't think me nor her are really looking for a relationship. She is a a six year medical program and I'm going to a different college in the fall. Thanks for the response though!
0 Replies
Loganz97
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Sat 28 Jan, 2017 02:48 pm
@Tiger81,
That's a nice way to think about it. It's actually typically her who asks to go places. But thanks for the response!
0 Replies
Loganz97
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Sat 28 Jan, 2017 03:04 pm
@Krumple,
This is the type of response I was hoping for because I wanted to see more of those questions that I wasn't thinking about! You are right I guess it shouldn't matter if she stays around. I was mainly just wondering if a man has any obligation to pay for any reason. It seems like everyone says no. She is normally the one who asks to go out and it's hard to say no to going out. We both have fun and I don't believe I've ever been called boring haha. It's just when she asks me to go somewhere, it's hard for me to pay 60 bucks for dinner and whatever else because I only have $100 in the bank. But Thank you so much for the reply! I was hoping to picked apart and you did it!
Thanks for the response. It's interesting to hear about the past and how relationships worked then. Especially during the 60s because that was an interesting decade in general!
0 Replies
Krumple
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Sat 28 Jan, 2017 03:11 pm
@Loganz97,
Loganz97 wrote:
This is the type of response I was hoping for because I wanted to see more of those questions that I wasn't thinking about! You are right I guess it shouldn't matter if she stays around. I was mainly just wondering if a man has any obligation to pay for any reason. It seems like everyone says no. She is normally the one who asks to go out and it's hard to say no to going out. We both have fun and I don't believe I've ever been called boring haha. It's just when she asks me to go somewhere, it's hard for me to pay 60 bucks for dinner and whatever else because I only have $100 in the bank. But Thank you so much for the reply! I was hoping to picked apart and you did it!
Well your welcome. Could you see what her reaction is next time she asks? Maybe at first to split the bill. If you don't see it going long term what do you have to lose? Say you want to go but only if she pays half. If she says never mind to that then she's been using you for dates.
She's asking you out and you're paying the whole shot? that seems odd to me.
Have you ever invited her out to a free/low-cost event (no meal)? I'd be curious to find out what would happen.
If she's only calling you to get meals/events paid for, yikes. If you were a real-life friend (or child of a friend) , I'd probably tell you that you could find a nicer person to spend time with.
I had a girlfriend years ago who seemed to be very independent and would get annoyed with me if I tried to pay for a date. Or even if I opened a door for her. I tried to respect her views, but it didn't work. When she didn't have any money she would expect me to pay (without asking) and when I walked through a door first she told me I was rude. I never knew which of her personalities I was out with until it was too late. Very smart and beautiful, but confusing as heck.
0 Replies
chai2
3
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Sat 28 Jan, 2017 06:33 pm
Normally I did the switching off on who paid for the meal. It all worked out in the end.
This woman is asking you to take her somewhere, and expects You to pay all the time?
She's taking advantage of you. That would be verified if you ask her to pay for something, and she gets annoyed or angry.
Maybe she figures you're paying for her sexual services.
I seem to remember some girls I knew in college were like that.
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