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John Kerry's Military Discharge

 
 
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 11:22 pm
Check this out:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1248227/posts

Hi,

With two weeks left until the Nov 2nd election, I am dumbfounded as to why the RNC hasn't forced this issue on the national media.

As is in the NFL, it is time for hard nosed, smash mouthed politics as the game comes down to the wire.

I am a Vietnam Veteran and already have concerns about John F. Kerry. Not so much his service in Vietnam, as his undermining our war effort when he got home. That aside, there are many veterans out there from many wars (WW II, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Grenada, etc, etc) and there are many veterans who didn't serve in combat theaters, who still know what it means to be discharged with "bad paper."

It is obvious from what has been reported (http://www.nysun.com/article/3107) that John Kerry received an other than honorable discharge from the Navy Reserve which was later (1978) appealed and upgraded, with his medals reissued in 1985.

It is absolutely outrageous that he "reported for duty"at the Democratic Convention while concealing the above from the American people. For him to be allowed to continue to conceal this by shielding his records from public view and not signing a Standard Form 180 to release his records is inexcusable. How can you, the RNC, continue to allow him to skate by on this issue?

It is past time to unleash the dogs of truth and tear away the facade that allows this traitor to hide his true service. All the major networks have pounded George Bush and squeezed every last political advantage out of his Air National Guard service, while Kerry gets off the hook with veterans and the American people for having performed in such a less than stellar manner that he got an other than honorable discharge. Could it be that the Democrats and their sycophants hit on the President's Guard record so hard as a means of deflecting focus from this larger issue?

I guarantee you that, if it is made known to the American people and all our veterans, that John Kerry had an other than honorable discharge from the Navy Reserve, he wouldn't stand a chance at being elected in November.

Why you continue to allow this issue to be swept under the rug is beyond me but I hope you bring it to the light of day and the sooner the better. The future of our country may very well depend upon it.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 06:10 am
Quote:
It is obvious from what has been reported (http://www.nysun.com/article/3107) that John Kerry received an other than honorable discharge from the Navy Reserve which was later (1978) appealed and upgraded, with his medals reissued in 1985.


This is actually not obvious at all. See http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35996&highlight=
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 06:15 am
There are plenty of things to beat up Kerry about. This is not one of them.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 06:22 am
Quote:
With two weeks left until the Nov 2nd election, I am dumbfounded as to why the RNC hasn't forced this issue on the national media.



Don't be. I'm sure there is a very good reason why they aren't bringing this up....
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Armyvet35
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 09:34 am
Gunga as a military vet that served 12 years I do agree with you Smile

All Kerry would have to do is release his 201 file and he has refused. Would be very interesting to see why his DD214 was sent in with his 201 file to an appeals board if he had such a stellar service record...

200,000 vets have petitioned to have this information released, but thus far it has went unanswered.

Most civilians do not understand what little things are in our 201 files, the details surrounding everything you do in the military. Disciplinary actions, couseling statements, awards, marriages, training, deployments.... very detailed information with documentation to back everything...yes even debt management and marriage couseling are recorded in that file....

I believe in Kerrys refusal to release those records, yet maintaining he is this big war hero that is somehow more qualified to be President because of 4 months in nam, shows us the person he is...

Maybe one day we will really know the truth... think about it... Kerry is hiding something with those records, if he in fact has less than honorable service and then touts himself as this big bad war hero while soldiers are dying in Iraq it would ruin him....
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:12 am
To think there actually is scum in America who would trash the record of a guy who served honorably...and who placed himself in danger when called...

...in an ideological attempt to further the career of an incompetent moron who ran away when it was his turn.

You guys should be more than embarrassed and ashamed of yorselves...you ought to be in hiding somewhere so that people don't have to look at you.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:15 am
Freeper link.

Scroll

Cycloptichorn
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:20 am
Frank - it's only Kerry's "complete" record (the part he refuses to release) that seems to have gone into the witness protection program and is "hiding".
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:27 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
To think there actually is scum in America who would trash the record of a guy who served honorably...and who placed himself in danger when called...

...in an ideological attempt to further the career of an incompetent moron who ran away when it was his turn.

You guys should be more than embarrassed and ashamed of yorselves...you ought to be in hiding somewhere so that people don't have to look at you.


I agree Frank. I don't think anyone should trash the record of anyone who served honorably. They are scum.

Of course, it is the serving honorably that so many veterans are questioning about Kerry. Would you like to shut up all those veterans? Easy enough. Kerry can shut them up by releasing his 201 file. If everything is kosher, then there will be a lot of people with egg on their faces and they will shut up quick enough. That sure would shut them Swift Boat Vets up, huh? However, since Kerry seems to have no desire for you or anyone else to see that file, you and everyone else will have to just put up with people questioning his service record as put forth by him.

Should he have to release those records? Of course not. But it sure would be nice to know that the candidate for president who touts his honorable war service every chance he gets really did serve honorably. Nothing personal, but I just don't think we can take his word for it. Call it a distrust of politicians.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:40 am
CoastalRat wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
To think there actually is scum in America who would trash the record of a guy who served honorably...and who placed himself in danger when called...

...in an ideological attempt to further the career of an incompetent moron who ran away when it was his turn.

You guys should be more than embarrassed and ashamed of yorselves...you ought to be in hiding somewhere so that people don't have to look at you.


I agree Frank. I don't think anyone should trash the record of anyone who served honorably. They are scum.

Of course, it is the serving honorably that so many veterans are questioning about Kerry. Would you like to shut up all those veterans? Easy enough. Kerry can shut them up by releasing his 201 file. If everything is kosher, then there will be a lot of people with egg on their faces and they will shut up quick enough. That sure would shut them Swift Boat Vets up, huh? However, since Kerry seems to have no desire for you or anyone else to see that file, you and everyone else will have to just put up with people questioning his service record as put forth by him.

Should he have to release those records? Of course not. But it sure would be nice to know that the candidate for president who touts his honorable war service every chance he gets really did serve honorably. Nothing personal, but I just don't think we can take his word for it. Call it a distrust of politicians.



I appreciate what you are saying, CR, but I stick with what I said earlier.
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:50 am
I figured you would Frank. And that's ok. If we all had the same opinion it would get very boring around here. Smile
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:51 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
To think there actually is scum in America who would trash the record of a guy who served honorably...and who placed himself in danger when called...

...in an ideological attempt to further the career of an incompetent moron who ran away when it was his turn.

You guys should be more than embarrassed and ashamed of yorselves...you ought to be in hiding somewhere so that people don't have to look at you.


Basic bottom line, Frank, the only reason anybody ever gets three purple hearts in two months is the guy's too flakey to have around, and they want to get rid of him.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:02 am
gungasnake wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
To think there actually is scum in America who would trash the record of a guy who served honorably...and who placed himself in danger when called...

...in an ideological attempt to further the career of an incompetent moron who ran away when it was his turn.

You guys should be more than embarrassed and ashamed of yorselves...you ought to be in hiding somewhere so that people don't have to look at you.


Basic bottom line, Frank, the only reason anybody ever gets three purple hearts in two months is the guy's too flakey to have around, and they want to get rid of him.



You are quite sure, Gunga, that you want to stick with a broad stroke opinion like that no matter how asinine and offensive it is toward men and women who have gone into battle for this country???
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Armyvet35
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:06 am
I did in fact serve honorably as well, and it is my right as a vet to question it. I didnt serve in Nam but I did serve in Desert Storm, Somolia, and Bosnia. I served 12 years.

As a vet, I cant help but question his service he is so unwilling to substantiate. Just the awards alone are in themselves a signal of warning to me. The bragging about medals is also a warning, as is bragging about your service being better than someone elses. Kerry is guilty of those things in the very least. Seriously if a vet has a war hero type service record and was using it to further his career in poltics he would MOST DEFINATELY release that 201 file. Why hide it?

He doesnt have to release them that is his choice but after serving 12 years in the military, I know something just doesnt add up in his "4 months in nam" and in his refusal to release information that would prove him right.

It wouldnt normally matter to me, but if he is going to harp on Bush about National Guard, then in the same breath say, When I served in nam... then he must put his money where his mouth is... all the answers lie in that 201 file.

Being in the military isnt a qualification for being president .... unless you run yourself as a war hero, that would make a better candidate through combat experiance, when you voted to send troops to war and not fund them, then do a quick turn around and say you are anti war on a war you supported up until you became a presidential nominee. Doing this while troops are dying on a mission that you contributed to sending them too as well?

It is very important to me as a vet that you back up your claims or say notyhing more about it... I personally am sick of the "when I was in combat in Nam" line, he so blantantly likes to point out whenever there are cameras within ear shot.

My dad and father-in-law did multiple nam tours, my husband did 13 months in Iraq and 8 in Afghanistan, I did 11 months in Desert Storm, 6 in Somolia and 6 in Bosnia, does that mean any of us would be better candidates than Kerry?

See my point? Im very proud of my 201 file, I worked hard to earn everything I recieved while in the military.

It doesnt matter what capacity people serve in be it Nat Guard or reserves, as long as they did it, its fine with me. If they didnt serve that is fine as well.

The thing that concerns me is how you can be so decorated as a war hero like Kerry claims but have to go to a board to correct your discharge paperwork... the answers lie within his 201 file. I can see why he wouldnt want to release it....
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 01:39 pm
Armyvet35 wrote:


He doesnt have to release them that is his choice but after serving 12 years in the military, I know something just doesnt add up in his "4 months in nam"


More like two months, i.e. they didn't just hand somebody the keys to a swiftboat and tell them to have at it, there was a month or so of training after a week or so of incountry indoctrination.

There's no rational way anybody gets three purple hearts in two months for reasonable service. I seriously doubt you'll find another case like that in the entire history of the US military.
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limbodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 02:48 pm
Let us not forget that Nixon has a recorded tape where his advisor says he'll "keep hitting" John Kerry.

And the issues of his discharge somehow appeared years after he was out of the military.

Yeah, I think Kerry's not the issue here.
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 03:32 pm
I agree that releasing the record would answer the questions raised. However, to do so would probably offer more fuel for ignition. So it becomes an issue of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. I am sure that he will eventually release all the documents, probably in as timely a manner as Bush released his documents... Rolling Eyes

Nixon had it out for Kerry, saw him as a threat. Probably found some sort of dirt and turned it into a smeary mess that wasn't a fair representation of things. Someday we will learn what exactly transpired, probably. Before the election in 2 weeks? Probably not. Why? Because the bruhaha would distract people from voting based upon the problems in the present. Why borrow problems from the past now? It makes no sense. It's the wrong drum to beat right at this time. Why did he bring up his war record? Because Bush has none except for the one he created by initiating a preemptive strike against Iraq after beginning a logical strike at Afghanistan... He raised his record to compare it to Bush's, who was, if you will, drafted into it with 9/11, but screwed up not finishing w/bin Laden before pulling troops out to go to Iraq. Then he parades around stumping over there declaring that we "won" before we won anything? Confused Kerry actually served. Kerry actually got wounded in the line of duty. Then he saw how wrong the whole war was over there, and spoke out with his band of brothers speaking out against the war in the early 70s. While Bush was what? Snorting coke with frat boys? Confused Kerry was out debating the war in the early 70s. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4534274/ Kerry was seen as a threat by Nixon and his cronies. They were out to stop him, and he was sort of stopped, for a while... until a fair man (Carter) took office and actively righted a very great wrong. Yeah, he could release it all now, but what would it prove? Not as much as it would open up to question... at a time when we, as a nation, should be looking at the present problems... Don't you all agree that those take priority over whether or not either Bush or Kerry had dirt in their closet 30 years ago? Confused
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Armyvet35
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 07:48 am
"but screwed up not finishing w/bin Laden before pulling troops out to go to Iraq" *princess

I believe the soldiers that are In afghanistan right now would highly disagree with you there princess, the last time they checked they were there and that mission is still ongoing. The theater of operations over there is quite a bit different in needs, sizes, and units and jobs needed than in Iraq. The Mission also is a bit different and certain types of soldiers are needed for that. Pull out troop from Afghanistan eh? Not true at all. Rotations are done in both countries and have been done in other Campaigns and Missions, that doesnt mean people are pulled out, it means they are switched out.


"Kerry was out debating the war in the early 70s"
*princess

Debating? Is that what you call it? Hmmm interesting. I call it stabbing those in the back, to plan for your political Career, dishonoring those you served with, beating the soldiers while they are down in a war zone and cant defend themselves because you abused the system to come home early. Hmmm debating... Not

"Don't you all agree that those take priority over whether or not either Bush or Kerry had dirt in their closet 30 years ago" *princess

Normally I would say yes to that, but in an election for a man that will be Commander in Chief of Our Armed Services, and as a vet of the Armed Services, It does concern me the way Kerry turned his back on those soldiers in Veitnam. I want the truth. The reason that bothers me is he authorized war and supported the outing of Saddam for many years, but now when he has to change and say he is the Anti war candidate. But he changes to satisfy his party and his supporters. He votes to send troops to war then doesnt fund them. Sorry you cannot again turn your back on the soldiers... so yes it is important to me...









Kerry actually served. Kerry actually got wounded in the line of duty *princess

Yes kerry served 4 months out of 12, less than 1/2 of his tour in nam. he refuses to release a 201 file showing how those 3 purple hearts were awarded, and he was defered back to the states for them. the Reason alot of vets question those awards is because everything that goes into the desicions of those awards kerry has. There isnt another guy in military history that did that, and recieved the honors kerry did, so that would be interesting to see. The shrapnel wounds... well there is self inflicted, combat, and richocett, did you know that the type of shrapnel wound you recieve can or cannot be awarded a purple heart based on many issues?
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 01:03 pm
Armyvet35 wrote:



"Kerry was out debating the war in the early 70s"
*princess

Debating? Is that what you call it? Hmmm interesting. I call it stabbing those in the back, to plan for your political Career, dishonoring those you served with, beating the soldiers while they are down in a war zone and cant defend themselves because you abused the system to come home early. Hmmm debating... Not









Kerry actually served. Kerry actually got wounded in the line of duty *princess

Yes kerry served 4 months out of 12, less than 1/2 of his tour in nam. he refuses to release a 201 file showing how those 3 purple hearts were awarded, and he was defered back to the states for them. the Reason alot of vets question those awards is because everything that goes into the desicions of those awards kerry has. There isnt another guy in military history that did that, and recieved the honors kerry did, so that would be interesting to see. The shrapnel wounds... well there is self inflicted, combat, and richocett, did you know that the type of shrapnel wound you recieve can or cannot be awarded a purple heart based on many issues?




Thank you! That was beautiful.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 01:30 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
To think there actually is scum in America who would trash the record of a guy who served honorably...and who placed himself in danger when called...
You guys should be more than embarrassed and ashamed of yorselves...you ought to be in hiding somewhere so that people don't have to look at you.


I think you should be less liberal with words like scum in reference to those who are suspicious of Kerry's repeated claims of heroism in view of (1) his betrayal of his comrades after he returned; (2) The facts that have emerged about his 13 week combat tour; (3) His refusal to release the available records of his medical treatment for the three "wounds" he received and the resulting medals through which he got an early trip home; and (4) his refusal to release the 201 file which would document the details of his discharge, interesting in view of his illegal activity while still in the Naval Reserve and the OTH discharge that was the usual result in such cases.

I broke an arm ejecting from an aircraft over the Gulf of Tonkin after taking a hit near Vinh. No Purple Heart because the injury was not the direct result of enemy fire. I, and everyone I knew, would have been embarrassed to ask for one.
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