sh*t boat veterans get da boot

Kerry says he's a better candidate for ALOT of reasons besides the one you cite. And what DO you know better? You said it twice in your last post.

One thing I do know is he (Kerry) doesnt know what he stands for, on or around concerning anything of importance

"I know better"

I have seen the changes in the past years Kerry has taken, that I do know and refuse to accept, double that when it comes to matters of the military, the education of our children, and being a poster boy for the UN .

Bush is a moron...and his adminsitration is the most incompetent I've personally ever lived through.

Kerry is so superior to Bush...it is inconceivable to me that anyone cannot see that.

I suspect you are voting for Bush because of ideology...and that all this other stuff is just rationalization.

Hey...it is a free country....and if you want to trash it by giving your vote to Bush, that is your right.

Actually I am voting for Bush because his policies and ideas are something that match up alot closer to0 My ideas. and Kerrys don't. I haven't always voted republican, but I cannot support John Kerry on anything. I do not agree with some of Bush's policies either but I must go with the candidate that stands for much of what I believe in:

I support bush for these reasons:

1. Strong Military
AGREE:Kerry wants Huge UN Involvement:Disagree
2. No Child left behind (flawed, but more options for parents)
AGREE: Kerry see flaws but wants to take the vouchers away:disagree
3. Patriot Act
AGREE: Kerry is against, though he voted for it: Disagree
4. Tax cuts to help growth
AGREE:kerry will tax people higher:Disagree
5. Opposes Abortion except in rape incest and saving a womans life
AGREE:Kerry is for abortions:disagree
6. Supports the Death Penalty
AGREE:Kerry is against:Disagree
7. Supports Drawdown of troops in different countries
AGREE: Kerry is against:disagree
8. supports Protect gunmakers from lawsuits
AGREE:Kerry is against this:Disagree
9. Supports National missle Defense
AGREE: Kerry is against this:Disagree
10. Better benefits and pay for Military
AGREE:haven't seen Demos take care of military
11. Banning gay marriage
AGREE:Kerry has flipped a few times here
12. Supports "don't ask don't tell" policy in Military
AGREE:Kerry supports openly gay:Disagree
13. Supports private sector Medicare competition
AGREE:Kerry wants Socialist System:disagree
14. Supports limiting patient lawsuit caps
AGREE: Kerry is against this:disagree
15. Supports preemptive strikes on enemies
AGREE:Kerry is against this:disagree

I have 15 issues listed here that I am for... Bush meets 15 of 15. Kerry doesn't come close on most issues and his relations that he foresees with the UN for our country and Military I outright do not support. I have served under both Democratic and Republican Presidents in the military and have yet to see a democrat "Mean what they say" when it comes to pay and benefits, nice campaign promises followed by soldiers on food stamps and loss of benefits, with no money to do proper training, not to mention implementing politically correct policies that interfere with discipline, structure, and espri d corps

Bush on religion... well I am tolerant of those that believe in a higher power and place their faith in that, though I myself think its a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I don't hold it against people.

So with this said how can I support Kerry when he is against almost everything I support? I cant.

Glad to see you're feeling better, Frank. :wink:

A couple of corections:



Kerry only wants to do away with a few details in the patriot act, he does not oppose everything in it



Both support NMD, Bush wants to deploy it ASAP, Kerry wants to allocate more time to further develop the system (argues no imediate threath)



Kerry has consistently oposed a constitutional amendmant, and favored leaving the desicion to the states



Kerry wants to allow people to choose among a number of arangements, and buy innto their choice. How is this socialist?


It hits me that I disagree with you on nearly every issue. If you want to debate eny of them do tell.

Armyvet35:

You're black and white world isn't very becoming, but it coincides nicely with Bush's black and white version of what he sees, which IMO is extraordinarily dangerous, not only to America, but to the world.

The flip-flop label being given to Kerry by conservatives appeals to the lowest common denominator within their consituency.

When you saw those idiots wearing pink bandaids on their chins and waving their arms back and forth at the RNC, it becomes very clear.

Can we start here?

He wants us to buy into gov heathcare paid for by rolling back Bush tax cuts to provide heathcare to every single living American. Economists already said this plan will not work, costing big money and leaving millions of Americans without healthcare...

*I do not agree with gay marriage period... so there is nothing to debate there

*National Missile Defense Opposes NMD, supports nonproliferation and arms control , http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/issues/index.kerry.new.html

Kerry only wants to do away with a few details in the patriot act, he does not oppose everything in it

If he wants to do away with a few details of something he supported and voted yes to... why in the world did he support it in the first place? The reason I ask is there were things in the Funding the American troops bill he voted against because he didnt support a few item in that, so he voted on a bill to support the Patriot act even though he didnt agree with some things in it, but voted against a bill to fund our military in a time of war for the same reason...*boggle

See why I cannot vote for the guy?

He did the same thing with the No Child left behind Act

And the same thing with use of force in iraq....

You cannot have it both ways to please as many people as you can

In the very least, our children and our men and women in uniform deserve better than that....

Yeah...well, George Bush is still a moron...and the administration he has assembled is probably the most incompetent in our nation's history.

I personally think these things are merely extentions of the rationalization process...and if you have any true love of country and humanity...you will disavow the moron and vote for Kerry even if you have to hold your nose while doing so.

Frank and I are in utter agreement on the fact that George Bush really has to go. It's for the good of the country. We are already so bitterly divided, and Bush's incompetence in trying to bring this country together has truly been stunning. Not the qualities I would EVER want in a leader.

Black and white?

You're black and white world isn't very becoming, but it coincides nicely with Bush's black and white version of what he sees, which IMO is extraordinarily dangerous, not only to America, but to the world.

You know the same could be said of kerry supporters believing everything he is promising in his run for presidency and not asking how he will fund it. I guess that doesnt matter as long as Bush is voted out of office....We will deal with the issues of paying for all of these promises later, If they are even implemented, lets just start over... realistically that cant happen

And no sorry I cannot accept that and shall not accept it

I have not in any way called anyone ignorant to the facts on this forum or bashed people in anyway because they do not agree with my opinions on issues or who I shall support in this election. I will say that Kerry isnt in line with what I believe so I cannot vote for him... it has nothing to do with party lines because I am pretty much middle ground and am willing to look at a candidate and not go one way or another. Problem is I think Nader is just "out there". I think Kerry doesnt have the interests of this country at heart and im not too disappointed in Bush's performance in his first term.

I am dissapointed and disgusted in both parties sepearating and dividing of people and the almost childish , kindergarden antics in the press. I do expect maybe a bit more of a "grown up, mature, and disciplined manner in which they carry themselves. The spinning, party rhetoric, and conspiracy theries from both parties are on the verge of obscene and paranoid, and yes laughable, but Im not laughing. Why am I not laughing? Because both parties are making americans look ignorant and petty, childish and immature.

Like I have said before... you have your views, opinions, and things that are important to you and I have mine. You will never change my mind or what I believe to be the best thing to do as I well I will not be able to change yours.

I can live with that and not be petty about it. You view my opions as black and white... I see yours as black and white.....

" personally think these things are merely extentions of the rationalization process...and if you have any true love of country and humanity...you will disavow the moron and vote for Kerry even if you have to hold your nose while doing so."

True love for my country I do have. I served in the Army for 12 years and tolerated Clintons policies with the military while "sucking it up and driving on"

I do not think Bush is a moron... he just has a different approach than what the democrats do.
This country prides itsself on being able to have their own opinions.

Like I stated I am not too disappointed with Bush's first four years and shall give him another 4. Kerry in no way appeals to me, as a vet that served 12 years and have seen my fair share of deployments, as a mom of soon to be 3 kids, as a wife of a soldier that has spent almost 2 years away from home in Afghanistan and Iraq, as a daughter of a Nam vet that did 3 tours to nam, and as as daughter-in law of a Nam vet that did 2 tours in Nam.

As you accuse me of rationalizing everything, the same could be said of you "If you have any true love of country and humanity...you will disavow the moron and vote for Kerry even if you have to hold your nose while doing so.

I love my country and will not vote for Kerry when I am against what he stands for...I did my time to not be forced to hold my nose to vote for a candidate I have no trust in and who I do not see as fit to be president.

As Bush has done nothing but cater to his special interests and huge corporate donors like rolling back environmental laws, cutting budgets for programs he touted in photo-ops, etc., I can't imagine what, if any, "best interests" he would have for this country.

The only point I would agree with you on is that we are stuck in this two party system, and that both parties cater to the lowest commong denominator. But the divisions are worse than I have ever seen, and it has happened under a Bush pResidency. To make suggestions saying that Kerry wouldn't have fought the terrorists, that he is their friend, that he is a Saddam apologist, and that we'll be attacked if we elect Kerry, are so horribly disengenuous, and they ALL are coming from the GOP.

I'm surprised you would be so concerned about funding Kerry's healthcare program when Bush has exploded the Federal budget and it's deficits for YEARS to come. That kind of duplicitous rationale doesn't seem to make very much sense.

All of this is why Bush must go. That is why we desperately need a change.

That is why I'm voting for Kerry.

Armyvet35:

As you are a dedicated veteran and protector of our country, I must say that I highly respect and thank you AND your family for your enormous sacrifices. I just wish you could see the true idiocy of this current administration, and the enormous corporate influences that dictate their decisions in sending your husband, our wives, our sons and our daughters off to war (Iraq).

I've enjoyed your posts vet. While I disagree with some of your conclusions on Kerrey I respect the way you put forth your ideals.

" I just wish you could see the true idiocy of this current administration, and the enormous corporateinfluences that dictate their decisions in sending your husband, our wives, our sons and our daughters off to war (Iraq). "

Well for one My husband, my self and our families have supported this military action in Iraq for many years now. I spent 11 months there the first time we went in 90-91. As medic I had the great honor of meeting many iraqi soldiers and civilians and got to actually speak to quite a few of them. After doing so I came to the conclusion that Saddam must be removed...we left them hanging...
So instead of just supporting or not supporting this war on an election year... I spent many years supporting this war and to this day still support it. My husband on the other hand after spending 13 months on the ground in Iraq with the 101st ABN DIV all around Iraq, he also had the opportunity to meet the people and see for himself what it its really like over there. The media portray an entirely different angle and twist more often athan not the "truth isnt being portrayed" My husband was treated with respect by the Iraqi people everywhere he went except for a few times. He saw a media sponsored protest in Iraqi where the media made the "hate the USA signs" "Bush the infidel" and many other signs and they passed them around the crowd of Iraqi men standing by waiting for the cameras to roll. When the cameras were turned he saw total chaos, once the cameras were off people moved quietly on. On alot of occasions he would look to one side of a city block in baghdad and see poverty and dispair then turn his head the other way and see wealth and not the ghetto across the street. That is something else the media fails to mention. He was disgusted when he came home and watched the news, just like I was when I was in Desert storm for 11 months and came home and watched the medias portrayal of it. To say is was quite untruthful would be a gross understatement.

and the enormous corporateinfluences that dictate their decisions in sending your husband, our wives, our sons and our daughters off to war (Iraq).

Do you honestly believe this is the only administration to do this? My husband and I did multiple deployments under Clinton for lesser reasons. While deployed during those times, Clinton didnt have a problem not giving us the pay raises we deserved, nor did he mind taking away benefits we needed as those are part of our military pay. Should you deploy a military over and over while they are having to recieve food stamps to feed their families? All in the name of the supposed Budget surplus? Do you implement policies that weaken the military while soldiers are deployed on missions that were questionable? Clinton put us almost 10% behind in military pay. We, in the military know that it isnt about the money when you serve, but having to deliver pizzas at night to pay the rent and be a full time soldier is a hard but needed mission to a soldier who is too ashamed to go get the food stamps they qualify for. You ever wonder why the military leans republican I have just explained why. I saw people arguing on her over that army times poll. It is pretty dead on whether you decide to believe that... is your choice.

Clinton used us,,, as did many politicians before him and like many politicians will for future years to come, yet soldiers still soldier on. I have never been ashamed of anything I did in the military, I was never a war hero, I was doing my job. BUT I have never bashed someone that wont serve or cannot handle the way of life our soldiers do, because the military is not for everyone.

I do not see Kerrys service any better than Bush's, but I have never respected a politician that serves less than 4 years in the military and that somehow makes them a more qualified candidate or a better informed person, because it takes more than 4 years to even get a grasp on what the military is about. Its policies, its regulations and such. I went to the rank of SSG when I got out and my husband is a SSG now but he came in 6 years after I did. I joined under the regan bush era and he came in under clinton. And we can both attest todays military is nothing like the structured and disciplined Army I joined. As a SSG I had the power to keep soldiers in line... my husband as a SSG does not thanks to politically correct policies adopted under clinton give everyone a way out of of trouble for doing the wrong thing. All they have to do is scream AA or EO and they are off the hook. Promotion packets used to not have the race question it was based on Merit. Merit should be the only way one makes it through the ranks not because you are a woman, or black or hispanic. Just an accusation from someone can ruin your military career, whether you did it or not.

We dont need a softerm gentler military. We need that restored back to pre-clinton standards.


I dont see Kerry as a viable candidate and I am not willing to take the wait and see approach, because my husband is indeed going back to Iraq in Febrary and I do not trust that Kerry will look out for him, and Bush has already proven himself in that department.

Though that is not the main reason I support BUSH, that is one of many that top my list.

Another thing that gets me and this is completely off subject. Is no one cares when a soldier dies when its not an election year, but us in the military care everyday. Its insulting to use the deaths of soldiers as a political toy. I would be suing anyone that felt the need to show pictures of my husband draped coffin or interfere ina funeral should I lose him in this war because me like many spouses in the military do not agree the media should have rights to do so... While many of those people that like to say bush killed many soldiers with his decisions, they spent Christmas and thanksgiving with their families, not a care in the world or a thought to those that have died in the Military, my husband was in Iraq and my daughters and I spent the entire day with injured and hospitalized soldiers that spent their Christmas and thanksgiving in a hospital bed. Just that simple gesture put a smile on those soldiers faces and a few tears in their eyes knowing there were people there that cared about them.

We in the military do realize that the deaths are quite minimal when you take out all the non-combat deaths in Iraq and add the type of war they are fighting and the time that has passed. You can lump it all together if you wish but we lose 450 soldiers a year to non combat just here in the states. 5 soldiers died this past weekend here at campbell in 5 seperate vehicle accidents, and yes we mourn their loss no matter what the cause of it, and we do not point fingers to the political parties because we understand what our jobs are. We as military dependents understand as well.

Sorry to drone on... ill quit for now....

Please don't quit armyvet35.

Um .... didn't Zell Miller make some suggestions along those lines?

^