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The U.N. Gun Ban Treaty - Gun Owners Beware

 
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 03:21 pm
You may not like Kerry, but he's no fool. He knows he'd be crazy to take on the NRA...

I wish some national politican would, though...
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 03:23 pm
cjhsa wrote:
By the way, LaPierre wrote the piece I posted and used Oz as an example of lost rights. I didn't bring it up - Dlowan took offense.

D-lo, if you like your laws, fine, I'm not trying to change them. I'm trying to point out to honest, civil, gun owning Americans the threat to their second ammendment rights.


Cj - if you Americans want your guns, so be it.

It is when you tell lies about other countries that I will challenge you. Or when you carry on about conspiracies. But Walter got you on that!

I don't take offence, I take an interest in the promulgation of misinformation.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 03:26 pm
I mean, D'art, I'm concerned a bit as well:

father-in-law was the last approved/examined "sword-maker master" in Solingen and I own a licence to carry firearms from 1809 (although by King Jêrome - not only that he is French, but I don't live in the Royaume de Westphalie ...).
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 03:29 pm
Just an FYI.

Rebecca Peters: Chief Executive of IANSA (the International Action Network of Small Arms), In 1996 Rebecca was awarded the Australian Human Rights Medal for her work in promoting gun control in Australia... IANSA is the global network of civil society organizations working to stop proliferation and misuse of small arms and light weapons. IANSA brings world attention on the humantarian impact of these weapons and brings the voices and activities of non-government organizations and concerned individuals across the world. Founded in 1998 it now has more than 500 participant groups in nearly one hundred countries
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dlowan
 
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Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 03:31 pm
Er - yes, and this is SINISTER??????

Sheeesh.
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Dartagnan
 
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Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 03:32 pm
Talk about the eye of the beholder...I wondered about that, too, dlowan.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 04:29 pm
There seems to be something about just debating the issues that is scary to gun folk.

Is it not a normal practice in a democratic country to debate the rights and wrongs of all manner of things?

Seems people here do not see anything sinister in gun debate - and a UN involvement in such.

Lol - our conservative government, however, did NOT like UN involvement in debate over treatment of Aboriginal people - suddenly the UN was interfering!!!!

Perhaps we fear debate when we think we have something to fear about what we are doing?
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 04:33 pm
Could be, because it surely seems that even a whiff of discussion about gun ownership in this country gets the NRA and its acolytes up in arms and manning the ramparts!
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 04:33 pm
Why would I fear guns and gun ownership by responsible, honest, hardworking, nose-clean Americans? Bah - rubbish.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 04:46 pm
Lol. You REALLY don't read what anyone says, do you, Cj?
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Mr Stillwater
 
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Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2004 04:53 pm
Deb - boys and their toys y'know.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:31 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I thought, the USA was an independent state, with on own parliament (here: congress), a government ... who have to sign and ratify a treaty?

(Such is commonly known as "International Law".)


I believe the fear is that Kerry will sign the treaty, and then a big push from the anti-freedom community will result in it being ratified by the Senate, which has never been a huge defender of our Constitutional gun rights.

I'm not sure if the Senate would ratify it, but it does seem to be cause for concern.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:47 pm
dlowan wrote:
The same drivel says that the laws haven't worked - there are more burglaries. Perhaps -

but:
Sharp Drop in Gun Crime Follows Tough Australian Firearm Laws



Actually, Australia's armed and unarmed robbery rates have risen quite a bit since the gun ban, and there has been only a small drop in homicide rates.

Yes, a much lower percentage of the homicides were the result of gun use. But I question whether going from gun-deaths to knifing deaths (or whatever the current common method is) is much of an improvement.




dlowan wrote:
In Canada, where new gun laws were introduced in 1991 and 1995, the number of gun deaths has reached a 30-year low.

Two years ago in the United Kingdom, civilian handguns were banned, bought back from their owners and destroyed. In the year following the law change, Scotland recorded a 17% drop in all firearm-related offences. The British Home Office reports that in the nine months following the handgun ban, firearm-related offences in England and Wales dropped by 13%.

A British citizen is still 50 times less likely to be a victim of gun homicide than an American.



Don't know about Canada, but in England the violent crime rate is triple that of the US.

Usually when organizations put out propaganda that loudly trumpets gun crime rates, they are trying to divert attention from the fact that their anti-gun measures have done nothing to impact total crime rates.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:54 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
You may not like Kerry, but he's no fool. He knows he'd be crazy to take on the NRA...

I wish some national politican would, though...



Look to Kerry's record. He is not afraid to push for violating our Second Amendment. He voted to do so just this year whith the assault weapon ban.

He also cast a vote this year for a law that would have banned all handgun ammo that is suitable for hunting or defense against dangerous animals.


Why do you wish that someone would take on one of the leading civil rights organizations in America?

Personally, I find the NRA's defense of our rights to be a good thing.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 10:56 pm
oralloy wrote:

Don't know about Canada, but in England the violent crime rate is triple that of the US.


The only published data for England are those by the British Crime Survey (BCS). Besides that I couldn't find any seperated figures only for England (they are for England and Wales, as far as I know), I couldn't furthermore find statistics, which affirm your above statement.

Coul you please give me a link to your figures?
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:01 pm
dlowan wrote:
There seems to be something about just debating the issues that is scary to gun folk.

Is it not a normal practice in a democratic country to debate the rights and wrongs of all manner of things?

Seems people here do not see anything sinister in gun debate - and a UN involvement in such.



When the debate is about whether to violate our civil rights, it tends to be cause for concern for those who value those rights.

Personally, I think the US should conduct military strikes against any foreign body that tries to coerce us into violating our Constitutional rights, and I'm willing to include the UN in that.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:03 pm
dlowan wrote:
Er - yes, and this is SINISTER??????

Sheeesh.


Yes. Her attempt to violate our Constitutional rights is sinister.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:05 pm
oralloy wrote:
Personally, I think the US should conduct military strikes against any foreign body that tries to coerce us into violating our Constitutional rights, and I'm willing to include the UN in that.


Welcome to A2K, oralloy.

Interesting statement.

Does this mean, you recomment a civil war as well against those US-citzens, who oppose private gun ownership?

And how, do you think, would a war against the UK - your strongest ally in Iraq - be thought of?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:06 pm
oralloy wrote:


Yes. Her attempt to violate our Constitutional rights is sinister.


Could you verify this a bit?

How she can ... in legal terms, and by practical means.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:10 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
oralloy wrote:

Don't know about Canada, but in England the violent crime rate is triple that of the US.


The only published data for England are those by the British Crime Survey (BCS). Besides that I couldn't find any seperated figures only for England (they are for England and Wales, as far as I know), I couldn't furthermore find statistics, which affirm your above statement.

Coul you please give me a link to your figures?


I compared the British Crime Survey with the FBI equivalent.

I can hunt up a link, but it may take me an hour or so to find it. It was over a year since I made that comparison, and I'll have to hunt up the data again.
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