192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hightor
 
  4  
Fri 19 May, 2017 04:51 am
@Lash,
Quote:
I think if you guys read Hedges, Chomsky and the other authentic left writers...

That's the trouble — "authentic" left, "true" conservative. Politics has become a game of stuffing people into little boxes. I happen to like some of the things Hedges and Chomsky have said and I happen to disagree, strongly, to other things they've said. "Left" and "right" aren't found in nature. They are totally artificial constructs which change over time.
Quote:
There is a disgusting collusion between several powerful entities in this country that serves its own purposes, that is currently in the process of overturning the election.

Are you saying that Flynn shouldn't have been fired? Are you saying that the succession of contradictory accounts and embarrassing statements emanating from the White House practically on a daily basis is simply "business as usual"? The president is widely seen to be incompetent and suffers from low overall approval ratings. If investigations do happen to show a measure of malfeasance are you saying the president can break the law with with impunity? When did removal from office become "overturning an election"? Why would the Constitution even allow an impeachment process at all?
Quote:
Remember, no proof of any Russian involvement in the election has been forwarded much less proven.

That's why we have an investigation. The frequency of meetings and calls, the timing, and the secrecy regarding contacts with Russia prompted an investigation. It all could have been avoided. "Here are logs of the calls. Here's what we discussed in the meetings. Here are the president's tax returns. Nothing here, folks." It boggles the mind.
Quote:
Remember that the DNC has avoided responsibility for cheating voters even with the proof splayed across the Internet.

How did they "cheat" voters? They pissed off a lot of Sanders supporters but I don't see that they cheated anywhere. Sanders was still able to run an effective campaign and won a lot of contests, especially in open primary states where he attracted independent voters.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2017 04:53 am
@Lash,
Thanks, lash.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 19 May, 2017 06:00 am
Winner of today's Alternative Facts award
Quote:
Remember, no proof of any Russian involvement in the election has been forwarded much less proven.

Quote:
President Donald Trump’s envoy to the United Nations Nikki Haley said Russia was “certainly” involved in the U.S. presidential election, noting she does not trust Russian President Vladimir Putin and that Trump is not stopping her from “beating up on Russia.”
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-un-envoy-russia-involved-elections-578040

glitterbag
 
  5  
Fri 19 May, 2017 06:01 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Can't wait to see what a big splash Trump is going to make with his speech on Islam. Also would love to be a fly on the wall to hear what transpires between him and the delightfully outspoken Pope.


I know, I know. I can hear it right now, "He was not very nice to me, not nice at all, he's a very very bad democrat."
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 19 May, 2017 06:38 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
I think if you guys read Hedges, Chomsky and the other authentic left writers...

That's the trouble — "authentic" left, "true" conservative. Politics has become a game of stuffing people into little boxes. I happen to like some of the things Hedges and Chomsky have said and I happen to disagree, strongly, to other things they've said. "Left" and "right" aren't found in nature. They are totally artificial constructs which change over time.

Lash wrote:
It seems silly that you wasted your time on this line of discussion. People seem to chafe at the characterization of "authentic left" because they feel it is a swipe against their ideals - as if their authenticity as a person is being impugned. Not so. However, "authentic left" is a reasonable term. Take a look at your own statement, bolded by me above. The variation between the things you like that Chomsky and Hedges have said can be calibrated as leftist views, some more centrist, some establishment views, etc. These constructs, as you say, were developed to help us talk about politics.

A deep fissure has emerged between establishment Democrats and authentic progressives. If anyone would like to be called an authentic Establishment Democrat, I'll be happy to comply. You get me? The point with the term isn't meant to belittle, but to clarify. There are still some Democrats walking around who don't know which they are and what the difference is.


Quote:
There is a disgusting collusion between several powerful entities in this country that serves its own purposes, that is currently in the process of overturning the election.

Are you saying that Flynn shouldn't have been fired? Are you saying that the succession of contradictory accounts and embarrassing statements emanating from the White House practically on a daily basis is simply "business as usual"? The president is widely seen to be incompetent and suffers from low overall approval ratings. If investigations do happen to show a measure of malfeasance are you saying the president can break the law with with impunity? When did removal from office become "overturning an election"? Why would the Constitution even allow an impeachment process at all?

Lash wrote:
My statement doesn't equate to the assumptions your questions imply. There is a screeching chorus of accusation in the news. No one can point to evidence to prove the accusations; yet a president is in the first steps of being impeached. I think he is incompetent, but like Hedges and Chomsky, I feel a power behind the scenes is running the show - and even if I agree personally with what will likely happen to Trump, once this precedent is set - and backroom power brokers can flex muscle of this magnitude - with innuendo, gossip, bullying from the media, this country is forever changed to a third-world shithole.


Quote:
Remember that the DNC has avoided responsibility for cheating voters even with the proof splayed across the Internet.

How did they "cheat" voters? They pissed off a lot of Sanders supporters but I don't see that they cheated anywhere. Sanders was still able to run an effective campaign and won a lot of contests, especially in open primary states where he attracted independent voters.

Lash wrote:
You know better than this,
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 19 May, 2017 06:42 am
Quote:
With President Trump besieged by scandal and seemingly unable to stop tweeting himself into a deeper hole, suddenly the idea of a Mike Pence presidency is being seriously debated again. Several conservative pundits have argued that Republicans should be less hesitant to abandon Trump, since his replacement would be a competent Evangelical who issues threats with his steely gaze, not his Twitter account. However, this week the vice-president got caught in Trump’s web of controversy when a New York Times report suggested he might have lied about when he was informed of the issues surrounding former national security adviser Michael Flynn. On Thursday, New York Magazine’s politics team — Jonathan Chait, Ed Kilgore, Eric Levitz, and Olivia Nuzzi — joined digital deputy editor Jebediah Reed to discuss Pence’s role in the ongoing Trump drama, and what to expect if we find ourselves in a Pence administration before 2020.
discussion here
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 19 May, 2017 06:44 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Winner of today's Alternative Facts award
Quote:
Remember, no proof of any Russian involvement in the election has been forwarded much less proven.

Quote:
President Donald Trump’s envoy to the United Nations Nikki Haley said Russia was “certainly” involved in the U.S. presidential election, noting she does not trust Russian President Vladimir Putin and that Trump is not stopping her from “beating up on Russia.”
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-un-envoy-russia-involved-elections-578040




OH, silly me! 'Cause Nikki Haley said it!!

I'm sure you don't want me to bring a catalog of everything you'll have to defend because Nikki Haley said it...


But, I will, if her word is what you rely on for evidence of facts. I got a whole big God category to list, my new Christian bro.
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 19 May, 2017 07:21 am
@Lash,
That's rather obtuse. Russia's involvement in manipulation of the US election is acknowledged by all the intel agencies in the US, by many senior Republicans and conservatives, by intel agencies in other nations, by independent internet security entities and by reporting in the US, Britain, France, Belgium and other nations as well.

Nikki Halley's statement was noted to demonstrate that even people in Trump's administration are not merely aware of this but have spoken it publicly.

Perhaps Haley is part of the Deep State.
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 19 May, 2017 07:26 am
Interesting datum from NYer

When Ailes croaked, his wife didn't contact Fox with the news. She contacted Drudge.

PS... the piece is just four paragraphs and it is worth your time.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 19 May, 2017 07:44 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Quote Brandon:
Quote:
After months and months of investigation, you do not have one single specific example of collusion.

You don't know that. The FBI hasn't issued its report, so you don't know. The Congressional investigations are still calling witnesses. Republican committee chairmen asked to investigate Comey are doing everything they can to get out of it, including going nuts and getting themselves recused or leaving Congress.

When the reports are issued, THEN you will know if they have a single instance, or many instances, of collusion. In the meantime, we have to wait and amuse ourselves with the daily changes of position the Trump Administration officials are making as more and more evidence comes in that the stuff the Trump Administration claims never happened, happened.


Actually he does.

He knows farmerman, you the MSM and everyone else calling for Trump head don't have evidence of collusion.

If you believe Trump and his campaign colluded with the Russians, you're more than welcome to but it would be intellectually of you all to acknowledge that currently there is no evidence of any collusion of which you are aware. (At that point Olivier may go wild on you about post-truth attitudes and tell you he'll never respect you again, but I doubt it)

Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 19 May, 2017 07:45 am
@layman,
Precisely
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Fri 19 May, 2017 07:46 am
@hightor,
Well, there's no accounting for taste
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:05 am
@Lash,
My God! If my beliefs align with Noam Chomsky's I need to seriously examine them!

You make a good point though that the notion of deep state actors and activity is exclusive property of the Left, the Right, FOX News or aging progressive wunderkinds seeking to make a living a Left-wing voice on a generally conservative news network.

There are differences in definitions and estimates of it's scope and influence, and I feel certain that the "authentic" writers on the Left believe that corporate interests are in cahoots with deep state actors far, far more than do I, but regardless, it's been a political reality throughout the world for thousands of years. To dismiss it entirely as a kooky conspiracy theory seems to me to be stubbornly narrow minded.

I think you meant to write that there is no known proof of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia or that Russian hackers actually manipulated vote counts (or for that matter that whatever Russian efforts were at play had a material impact on the election).

I think that Trump has the potential for being a disaster, but I don't see how anything he's so far done can convincingly be describe as disastrous and he has had successes. In any case he won what thus far can only be described as a fair election, and the efforts to strip him of that victory can only be described as anti-democratic.

Of course one can be stubborn and narrow minded and believe that these efforts are the natural result of a thoroughly corrupt president and the standard exercise of the noble mission of true patriots who only have America's best interest at heart, but we all have a tendency to believe what we want to believe, and some more so than others.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:07 am
@hightor,
Kucinich is saying that the intel agencies are currently trying to destabilize the president. I think he is right about that. I have been saying for years that the US intel community is now far too powerful to leave politicians alone. We can disagree on whether it's a good or a bad thing (that might depend on the circumstances), or on whether it's entirely new or not (there are precedents) but I think the basic diagnostic is sound.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:12 am
@Lash,
Perhaps you might replace "authentic" with "orthodox." It is not unreasonable to infer from the use of the term "authentic" that there is only one true version of leftist thought and that any other is somehow phony.

Obviously your choice.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:22 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Kucinich is saying that the intel agencies are currently trying to destabilize the president. I think he is right about that. I have been saying for years that the US intel community is now far too powerful to leave politicians alone. We can disagree on whether it's a good or a bad thing (that might depend on the circumstances), or on whether it's entirely new or not (there are precedents) but I think the basic diagnostic is sound.


You and many others, but this is a peril found in any nation with a powerful intelligence agency. Pakistan is a prime example.

The circumstances where it would be a good thing for US intelligence agencies to operate outside of their authority and in direct opposition to elected officials is far beyond anything happening in the US today. It is a very serious threat to democracy and would only be justifiable if someone(s) democratically elected imposed an actual dictatorship (not some figment of partisan imagination) and rebellion was truly necessary and justified.
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:23 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I get your point. When I think of "authentic Left," I mean the guys who subscribe to tenets in line with what I consider to be the far left voices, of course, here in my country. It is subjective, and I will read a bit more and try to find a better term.

There just needs to be a way to delineate the these two main branches of US liberals.

And, LOL, no. I don't want your help!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:24 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Agreed.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:25 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Trust me, you don't want to follow Pakistan's example.

Edit: And I don't think that US intelligence agencies operate outside of their authority here. They were given vastly widened powers post 9/11, and they are using those powers.

You have to understand that most of them intel guys were raised and groomed in a cold war mindset. That Russia could be allowed to influence a US election is total anathema for these guys, and massive humiliation. So for them, they are perfectly within their bounds in defending America against nefarious foreign influence. And in this particular case I kind of agree with them: I believe that Trump is a danger for America, and that he was not elected in a legitimate manner. At the same time, I can see what's bothering Kuchinik. In fact I have been thinking for quite some time about the danger of modern intel agencies manipulating western democracies. It seems we in the thick of it now. Russian spooks tried to influence the US and French elections, and US spooks are trying to bring down the president, all behind closed doors and with much smoke and mirrors.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:43 am
Really!? Like, who knew, I ask ya?:

Quote:
Harvard Study Reveals Huge Extent of Anti-Trump Media Bias

A major new study out of Harvard University has revealed the true extent of the mainstream media’s bias against Donald Trump.

They found that the tone of some outlets was negative in as many as 98% of reports, significantly more hostile than the first 100 days of the three previous administrations:

The academics based their study on seven US outlets and three European ones.

In America they analyzed CNN, NBC, CBS, Fox News, the New York Times, the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal.

Every outlet was negative more often than positive.

Only Fox News, which features some of Trump’s most enthusiastic supporters and is often given special access to the President, even came close to positivity. Fox was ranked 52% negative and 48% positive.

Trump has repeatedly claimed that his treatment by the media is unprecedented in its hostility.

This study suggests that, at least when it comes to recent history, he’s right.


https://heatst.com/culture-wars/harvard-study-reveals-huge-extent-of-anti-trump-media-bias/

 

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