192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hightor
 
  7  
Thu 18 May, 2017 04:32 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Just listened to Dennis Kucinich...

Talk about a second act — third act, in this case — I find it very difficult to accept anything he says at face value. Once adored by a large swathe of the Democratic Party (the "Kucinich Democrats") he first came to our attention as the "boy mayor" of Cleveland. I've seen him address a crowd of adoring fans in 2004 and it was obvious he was eating it up — he'd just open his mouth and the crowd would start cheering. I think he misses the limelight. He'd defend the flat earth theory if he thought it would get him a few precious moments in the media spotlight, like Eldridge Cleaver endorsing Ronald Reagan.
Builder
 
  -1  
Thu 18 May, 2017 04:33 am
Naawww, looky heah. Much easier to neg vote someone, than address the issues.

More like a pre-school, than an adult forum here.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Thu 18 May, 2017 04:37 am
Quote:
Trump was NOT whining. He was saying that he is tough enough to take it.

I seriously doubt I'll read anything more obtuse than this today.

This is what "tough" would look like:
"Mr President, you've been getting a lot of flack recently"
"Yeah, I have, haven't I. That's politics. It's part of the job and it's to be expected"

What whining looks like is when every second speech and every second tweet and every second interview is replete with descriptions of how badly that president is being unfairly and cruelly victimized.
hightor
 
  6  
Thu 18 May, 2017 04:53 am
@blatham,
Quote:
But aside from that, you have this exactly backwards which is a very weird mistake to make.

But it must fit the scripted outline of this ongoing narrative — enemies of freedom comprise deep state. Dems are enemies of freedom. Hence Dems must support deep state. It's all in black and white. Nothing but an elaborately plotted Kabuki dance where reality unfolds according to the dictates of ideology. No room for chance or uncertainty, folks, nothing enters the picture until it's been assigned a political value, its trajectory pre-determined, and its true meaning outlined on the all-encompassing liberal vs conservative coordinate system because, by golly, that's all there is.
blatham
 
  5  
Thu 18 May, 2017 04:55 am
As I was saying...
Quote:
The Right Builds an Alternative Narrative About the Crises Around Trump
Enemies from within have launched a “deep-state” smear campaign, news organizations are acting with ulterior motives, and the worst attacks are yet to come.

Pushing back against the biggest threat so far to Donald Trump’s young presidency, his most fervent supporters are building alternative narratives to run alongside the “establishment” media account — from relatively benign diversions to more bizarre conspiracies.

“They’re going to say that Donald Trump has Alzheimer’s,” said the president’s friend and longtime associate Roger Stone, who made an online video laying out how the president’s own cabinet could trigger a never-used provision of the Constitution’s 25th Amendment to stage a coup on the grounds that Mr. Trump is mentally unsound. “This is the game plan. Watch carefully,” Mr. Stone swore.

As Americans process a dizzying week of damning revelations about the president — his firing of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey; his disclosure of highly sensitive intelligence to the Russians; and his plea to Mr. Comey to drop the bureau’s investigation of his fired national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn — Mr. Trump has found shelter on the right, where the collective judgment of the conservative media and the Republican Party so far seems to be to dismiss the allegations as “fake news,” shift the blame and change the subject.
NYT
It is absolutely essential to grasp that THE fundamental idea forwarded every hour of every day in right wing media is that all other media cannot be trusted because it functions only in support of Democrats and the left.

Consumers of right wing media have heard this so long from so many sources that they now hold this as an axiom as true and unquestionable as that gravity pulls things down.

It is, without a doubt, the most successful propaganda initiative I've ever witnessed in the West.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Thu 18 May, 2017 04:57 am
@hightor,
Yes, that seems to be exactly right. That the obvious contradiction would escape Finn is not encouraging.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Thu 18 May, 2017 05:17 am
Quote:
Conservatives begin to whisper: President Pence
With Trump swamped by self-inflicted scandals, Republicans find solace in the man waiting in the wings.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/17/mike-pence-president-trump-238525

Well, we've known this for a long while. And there are significant dangers to the left's agenda if Pence was to quickly replace Trump. Only a handful of senior GOPers and related interested parties wanted Trump to be the nominee and most fought very hard to keep him out. Once he was the nominee - and then when he won along with majorities in both houses - did most everyone fall into line, recognizing that conservative goals were within reach.

Pence, on the other hand, is a perfect placeholder for movement conservative goals. He has been the person the Koch brothers wanted in the WH, for example, and he's a favorite of the religious right.

As EJ Dionne stated yesterday, it will likely work out much better for Dems if Trump remains POTUS for quite a while longer. Because the memory hole on the right has the size and dynamism of a black hole, once Trump has been ushered out, most of the right will be enthused with new possibilities and transfixed with new narratives and they'll quite forget their love affair with Trump just as they've managed to stow their Tea Party hats up in the attic to gather dust. Not all, for sure, but most.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -2  
Thu 18 May, 2017 05:20 am
@blatham,
Yeah, the Don is clearly craving even closer scrutiny.

Such a cad.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Thu 18 May, 2017 05:22 am
Here's a huge ******* surprise
Quote:
Kochs boost Trump tax plan
In a potential boost for President Donald Trump’s largely stagnant tax reform effort, the Koch brothers’ advocacy operation is planning to spend millions of dollars advocating for changes to the tax code that mirror the ones proposed by the White House.

The two leading groups in the conservative advocacy operation spearheaded by the billionaire megadonors Charles and David Koch on Thursday unveiled an outline of tax reforms and announced that they intend to launch a robust campaign to rally public support for the blueprint.

The campaign is notable because the Kochs expressed deep reservations about Trump during the campaign, and their deep-pocketed network declined to support Trump, but it has a history of mounting aggressive congressional issue advocacy pushes.

The Kochs’ tax reform push is being funded by the Koch-backed nonprofit groups Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce and Americans for Prosperity, and it will include digital advertising, direct mail and grass-roots mobilization, according to James Davis, a spokesman for Freedom Partners.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/18/koch-brothers-trump-tax-plan-238530

It is not just that they'll get far, far more wealthy and powerful via the tax plan. It is that their goal of disempowering government will be greatly facilitated if government is starved of funds, thereby made weaker and more easily drowned in the bathtub.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Thu 18 May, 2017 05:23 am
Just out of curiosity, I've re-read a bit about Watergate.

Nixon’s famous defense was that "when the president does it, that means it is not illegal".
In these days the WH says, when the president does something, that means it is "wholly appropriate".
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Thu 18 May, 2017 06:06 am
Quote:
Sources: Trump campaign had at least 18 undisclosed contacts with Russians

Michael Flynn and other advisers to Donald Trump’s campaign were in contact with Russian officials and others with Kremlin ties in at least 18 calls and emails during the last seven months of the 2016 presidential race, current and former U.S. officials familiar with the exchanges told Reuters.

The previously undisclosed interactions form part of the record now being reviewed by FBI and congressional investigators probing Russian interference in the U.S. presidential election and contacts between Trump’s campaign and Russia.

Six of the previously undisclosed contacts described to Reuters were phone calls between Sergei Kislyak, Russia's ambassador to the United States, and Trump advisers, including Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser, three current and former officials said.

Conversations between Flynn and Kislyak accelerated after the Nov. 8 vote as the two discussed establishing a back channel for communication between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that could bypass the U.S. national security bureaucracy, which both sides considered hostile to improved relations, four current U.S. officials said.



Reuters

Personally now that a special prosecutor has been appointed, I don't feel quite the same desperate urgency as before. Even if at the end of day, no evidence is found to specifically prove a collusion between the Trump campaign associates and Russia, as long as they uncover all of the truth of when and how Russia interfered with the 2016 election, I will be satisfied. As for the impeachment of Trump, I think the case could be made, but I don't think the political will is there with republicans in congress and it has to be for Trump to be impeached.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Thu 18 May, 2017 06:21 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:
It's just politics as usual.
No. The Democrats are waging witch hunts. They need to be stopped. We need to start prosecuting them for every little crime they commit.

Sure thing. Just make sure the Republicans are prosecuted for every little or big crime they commit as well, starting with a firing squad for each and every Russian ass licker in this administration. Traitors deserve no less.

Quote:
Olivier5 wrote:
Remember the "birthers" and all the abuse thrown at Obama?

I remember that it was a bit of fringe lunacy that no one paid any attention to.

You have a bad memory. Trump himself was a birther. Are you saying he is a lunatic?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 18 May, 2017 07:20 am
@oralloy,
I'm far less conflicted on Russia.

True, it is not the same threat as was the Soviet Union, but that doesn't mean that it is not our adversary, and in general wants us to fail on all fronts and weaken.

Putin knows that the only real check on his aggression is the US. China is content for now with co-existing with a Russia focused on Europe, and Europe is neither willing nor capable of countering a seriously escalated Russian aggression.

He's not going to invade any NATO nation while Trump is president and I don't think he would do so if Obama was still president.

I'm not willing to concede non-NATO nations of the former Soviet bloc to Russia and I feel strongly that our government should not be either.

The "plight" of Russians in former Soviet bloc nations is a cynical red herring. Cynical because if any Russians are "trapped" in Georgia or Belarus it is because their grandparents and great grandparents were sent there by the Soviets to effectively colonize these countries and "Russianize" them by replacing native languages and culture with the Russian versions.

Russians living in Georgia who consider themselves Russian citizens and mot Georgians should return to the Motherland not plead to Putin to be "saved" They might only need to be "saved" if they are subversive as they were in the Ukraine.

The governments of the former Soviet states understand well enough that persecuting ethnic Russians within their borders is an invitation to Putin to invade them. Unless they are monumentally stupid, they won't do so. If ethnic Russians in Georgia behave like civil citizens of their new homes, it is highly unlikely they will be faced with anything from which they need saving.

Putin is former KGB and thinks and acts accordingly. He is a tyrant who panders to the persecution complex of the Russian people who enjoy thinking they never get any respect from the US and Europe, and need to restore the romanticized former glory of their still, essentially, backwards country.

This is not to say that we shouldn't engage with Russia and Putin.

For decades American leftists insisted the Soviet Union was a worker's paradise. When Khruschev admitted to the horrors of the Stalin regime and reduced Stalin's status and image from demi-god to psychopathic murderer, the American left went into a state of deep depression. Membership in the American Communist Party dropped through the floor. The fools had for so long refused to believe what their own country told them had happened under Stalin and was still happening, but they couldn't deny the truth when it was spoke by the Communist Premier. Afterwards there remained a great many apologists not only for communism but for Stalin.

For further decades Democrats and liberal urged engagement with the Soviets and had nothing but scorn and mockery for anti-Communist conservatives. Anyone declaring that communism was evil was considered by liberals to be a kook. Remember all the crap Reagan got when he called the Soviet Union the Evil Empire. Oh how the sophisticates on the left laughed and mocked the dim-witted conservative clod in the White House.

After the Soviet Union fell, for liberals, Russia became a basket case who despite despite maintaining a nuclear arsenal that could destroy all life on earth didn't present much of a threat to the US. Of course they criticized Bush for damaging relations and once they gained the White House we had the famously ridiculous Russian Reset, complete with a large red reset button as prop. Ultimately the policy proved a dismal failure a Russia invaded a sovereign nation under tissue thin pretext. Still when Romney stated in a debate that Russia was the greatest threat to US interests, Obama and virtually every Democrat and liberal mocked him.

Finally thought they have come around to the threat posed by Russia, and all it took was an election defeat at the hands of someone they despise.
Walter Hinteler
 
  6  
Thu 18 May, 2017 08:12 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Cynical because if any Russians are "trapped" in Georgia or Belarus it is because their grandparents and great grandparents were sent there by the Soviets to effectively colonize these countries and "Russianize" them by replacing native languages and culture with the Russian versions.
Actually, Georgia has been part of the Russian Empire since 1801. And after a period of one year of independence in 1917/18, followed by two years under British protection until 1920, it was part of the Sovjet Union/USSR.
A bit different the history Belarus - but they became part of the Russian Empire about the same time.

The Russification in both countries started in the early 1810s.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 18 May, 2017 08:18 am
@hightor,
Did I write that Dems or liberals necessarily support Manning or Snowden?

You're projecting.

Partisan Republicans are just as susceptible to the allure of the end justifying the means (although liberals seem to give in more often), and a great many would have applauded as a "whistle blower," a deep state operative who leaked intelligence that embarrassed or politically harmed Obama. Hypocrisy is an old friend of liberals but it shows up at plenty of conservative parties too, as demonstrated by the 180 many turned in regard to Wikileaks once they targeted HRC. Of course, at the same time, liberals who had once declared Assange as the herald of a new age of transparency whipsawed around themselves and declared him a rapist villain.

If the deep state tends to be populated by those on the left more than on the right, it likely has more to do with a disproportionate number of liberals working in the government. I will point out though that the progressive movement in the US began with the belief that expert technocrats (career government employees) were most suited to establishing governmental policy due to their experience, focus and reliance on the wonderful world of science. This premise has endured among progressives to this day and it is far more in alignment with deep state operations than anything found in conservative ideology.

I make no secret of preferring conservative principles over progressive, nor any apologies for calling out the common behaviors of the latter that I find problematic and directly related to their ideology. You certainly won't find me repeatedly whitewashing the errors and sins of Republicans as I don't consider them a force for good in the American struggle with evil as represented by Democrats, clearly, in general, I prefer them and their policies and positions.

In this regard we seem to be alike, although such a suggestion may horrify you. You clearly prefer Democrats and their polices to those on the other side of the aisle, but you are not beyond occasionally criticizing them. The majority of your criticism though is reserved for Republicans and conservatives.

On the other hand, given his Manichean view of the Left and the Right and his constant criticism of Republicans as corrupt, vile and stupid, it's quite amusing whenever blatham tries to make the case that another A2K member needs to be less tribal or ideologically zealous.

In any case the argument that nothing is black and white, particularly when someone is not making the case that it is, is not much of a response to a presented premise. It is even less so when it has become such a predictable go-to counter.


0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  6  
Thu 18 May, 2017 08:24 am
@Olivier5,
In January, the Trumpists claimed there had ben no contact with Rusians during the election or transition. Now in addition to the ones we already know happened, another 18, that's eighteen, hitherto undeclared Russian contacts are coming to light in ltoday's news. What "witch hunt"? More Trump lies.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Thu 18 May, 2017 08:28 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier writes of ora lloy
Quote:


Quote:
Olivier5 wrote:
Remember the "birthers" and all the abuse thrown at Obama?

I remember that it was a bit of fringe lunacy that no one paid any attention to.

You have a bad memory. Trump himself was a birther. Are you saying he is a lunatic?
1
Yeah, I'd noticed that too. Oralloy declaring Trump a lunatic. Truest thing he's ever posted.
snood
 
  8  
Thu 18 May, 2017 08:39 am
@MontereyJack,
Trump was not just the garden variety birther lunatic. He founded his political career on propagating lies about our president's origins. He puffed up the lie and maintained that he had paid investigators that had uncovered a massive hoax played by Obama. He pursued this toxic lie right up until he was forced, during his campaign, to make a tv appearance to admit Obama was American born. And even then he tried to make it a virtue that he had promoted the destructive fiction for years. Lunatic is way too flattering a description for this POS.
giujohn
 
  -2  
Thu 18 May, 2017 08:44 am
And so now we have a special counsel and everyone agrees that he is a fair man. The only potential problems I see with it is that it unnecessarily interferes with and quite possibly circumvents two Congressional and one FBI investigation(s), and that the special counsel does not answer to any elected official.

I would feel much better if the special counsel was limited in scope and mandated to a certain and expediant time frame.

I know all the snowflakes are breathlessly pinning their hopes on impeachment. I am more than confident that that will not occure. (My bet still stands)

While Donald Trump is not my favorite person to be President he is the duly elected President of the United States. In the unlikely event that he leaves office I would be delighted to have Pence as President. And if Trump never accomplishes anything while in office I am grateful to him for saving this country from the Clinton crime family.

The question I pose to the liberal denizens of A2K is: If the special counsel exhonerates Trump regardless the reasoning or mechanism will they accept his presidency? I heard from one of you, what say the rest?
farmerman
 
  7  
Thu 18 May, 2017 08:48 am
@snood,
Im amazed at how revisionist many of the righties have become when even trying to smooth over what Trump actually was saying in his "birther years".

Its as if they wish to change historic FACTS, just to suit their political myths about the man.

Trump DID spend large amounts in collecting "Facts" about Obamas alleged birth as a non native.
 

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