192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
giujohn
 
  -3  
Tue 16 May, 2017 09:32 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Golly goodness. I see Trump screwed up real bad. What a shocker that is.

This presidency is not sustainable. GOP fears of 2018 will be cascading. Unfortunately for everyone, that seems to be the ONLY factor which intrudes upon their notions of "governing".


Any time you want to take the bet, let me know.😪
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  5  
Tue 16 May, 2017 09:34 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Do you think that Trump has committed some sort of crime?



Obstruction of Justice if memos prove to be true.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Tue 16 May, 2017 09:42 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
Obstruction of Justice if memos prove to be true.

Setting aside for a moment the fact that the Democrats have already established the precedent that it is OK for presidents to commit obstruction of justice, if the memos are true how would that even remotely amount to obstruction of justice?
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -2  
Tue 16 May, 2017 09:50 pm
Hey Lash...you agreed to let me pick your new name, right??😁
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Tue 16 May, 2017 09:53 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Obstruction of Justice if memos prove to be true.


Obstruction of justice!? As already noted, Comey didn't take it that way. If he had, he would have been legally obligated (subject to criminal prosecution) to immediately notify the DOJ.

And why would he take it as that? According to this alleged memo...

Quote:
Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey that Mr. Flynn had done nothing wrong, according to the memo.

Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. “He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”

Mr. Comey did not say anything to Mr. Trump about curtailing the investigation, replying only: “I agree he is a good guy.”


1. How can you be accused of "obstructing justice" in a case where you're sure there is no crime to begin with?

2. Flynn had been very loyal to Trump, and wanting to save him the agony of an unnecessary and unwarranted never-ending investigation is something anyone would do for a friend, if they could.

3. Comey "let it go" for Hillary, who actually had been proven to have committted crimes. Why not for Flynn, who didn't?

4. According to the alleged memo, Trump never made any demands, or issued any orders, to drop the investigation. He merely uttered his hopes about what would happen with an innocent friend.

Hardly grounds for any "obstruction of justice" prosecution. McCabe already stated that no attempt to interfere had been made by Trump or anyone else.

Of course all that assumes that this "memo" from a pissed-off Comey is accurate. He could have written it (or rewritten it) at ANY time. He never made any such claims until after he was fired. A little suspect, eh?
Blickers
 
  5  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:01 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote McGentrix:
Quote:
You're sounding like C.I. and his continued stream of nonsense. You've never proven this.


I have proven that several of Trump's aides were close to Putin and paid by Putin or one of the Kremlin's puppet operations.

Flynn-whose investigation is still going on and who wants a plea deal.

Former Trump Campaign Manager Paul Manafort-worked for Putin's Ukrainian stooges and took $1.2 Million in illegal money.

Wilbur Ross, (now Sec'y of Commerce)-one of the directors of the Cypus bank which did extensive money laundering for illegal Russian government operations. And who can't seem to remember talking to Soviet Ambassador Kisylak at the Republican National Convention last year.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions-allegedly recused from being involved in the campaign investigations for telling untruths about meeting Russian Ambassador Kislylak at the Republican National Conventions. Yet he re-involved himself enough to fire FBI Director Comey.

And what the hell was the Russian Ambassador even doing at the Republican National Convention anyway? What comes next-Trump gives Putin his own private guest room at the White House? You've got to be in a coma if you think this stuff is normal.



0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  6  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:08 pm
@layman,
When it comes right down to it, Clinton got a BJ in the Oval Office.......much more serious than betraying an intell partner's intel gathering to the Russians. What is wrong with you and the other members of the buffoon brigade?
layman
 
  -2  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:10 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

When it comes right down to it, Clinton got a BJ in the Oval Office.......much more serious than betraying an intell partner's intel gathering to the Russians. What is wrong with you and the other members of the buffoon brigade?


Wrong. Clinton was impeached for committing perjury. His license to practice law was revoked for the same reason. The topic he lied under oath about just happened to pertain to his sex life in conjunction with a civil lawsuit the victim (not Lewinsky) filed against him.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:12 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
When it comes right down to it, Clinton got a BJ in the Oval Office.......

He also committed perjury, obstruction of justice, and witness tampering to cover up that BJ.
layman
 
  -2  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:19 pm
@oralloy,
You and I seem to keep making the same basic responses to the blatant distortions made by these eheese-eaters, eh?

We must be the only ones paying attention, because their attempts to condone the crimes of their homeys and fabricate crimes against Trump are so blatantly obvious that any reasonable person would spot them for what they are instantly.

"Hillary wasn't president." Yeah, that's a bona fide defense that should be raised by every felon throughout the country. How can you do this to me!? I aint the president.

It's all rather obscene, actually.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:41 pm
@glitterbag,
Poor, poor Billy-boy, eh? Why do they pick on that boy for no reason?

Quote:
In April 1999, about two months after being acquitted by the Senate, Clinton was cited by Federal District Judge Susan Webber Wright for civil contempt of court for his "willful failure" to obey her repeated orders to testify truthfully in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit. For this citation, Clinton was assessed a $90,000 fine, and the matter was referred to the Arkansas Supreme Court to see if disciplinary action would be appropriate.

Regarding Clinton's January 17, 1998, deposition where he was placed under oath, the judge wrote:

Simply put, the president's deposition testimony regarding whether he had ever been alone with Ms. (Monica) Lewinsky was intentionally false, and his statements regarding whether he had ever engaged in sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky likewise were intentionally false....

On the day before leaving office in January 2001, President Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his Arkansas law license as part of an agreement with the independent counsel to end the investigation.Clinton was automatically suspended from the United States Supreme Court bar as a result of his law license suspension. However, as is customary, he was allowed 40 days to appeal an otherwise-automatic disbarment. The former President resigned from the Supreme Court bar during the 40 day appeals period
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:49 pm
@oralloy,
Layman, Oral, Relax.....yes he lied about a BJ. Something that was crucial for the country to know about. Because really, how can you trust a man with a lusty appetite. You both need to realize that Clinton was unfaithful to his wife (probably neither one of you have ever been married) Trump is merely selling us out to the Russians because that old man thinks he can outsmart the freaking former KGB. He's just a sad old vainglorious dick who can't separate fantasy from reality and lies so often he has lost track of the truth. Reality for him is boring so he invents incredibly stupid fantasies to keep his fat ass entertained. He is the second fattest President we have ever had, and frankly if you actually believe he is 6'3" and ONLY weighs 238 pounds......I have swamp land in Florida and a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

(dear virgins, Bill Clinton committed perjury, not witness tampering......and obstruction of justice for a sexual act between consenting adults?????? are you shitting me....I was unaware that a BJ was a crime that Congress needed to investigate..and you want to hang your hats on criminal behaviour because of a BJ) But please let me know if you want the "crime" of consensual sex between adult heterosexuals raised to the level of an impeachable offense 'if that sex fiend tries to keep it private'. A warning however, under these rules, if a man lies about impotence when questioned about it by House members, his refusal to fess up could send him to a jail cell. These matters used to be a private affair, but not anymore, not since pathetic ghouls got the notion they are entitled to know every private thing about others......then get outraged over the idea that someone might learn about their online porn habits or deny hem access for insurance provided Viagra.
layman
 
  -2  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:53 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
I was unaware that a BJ was a crime that Congress needed to investigate..and you want to hang your hats on criminal behaviour because of a BJ?


Amazing that you persist in your blatant lies when every one knows the truth. That's about as solipsistic as it gets, I figure. Completely expected, and consistent with, your well-established M.O.,, of course, but still....
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Tue 16 May, 2017 10:57 pm
@glitterbag,
I'll just go ahead and save the moderators the time of editing this out...
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 16 May, 2017 11:29 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
Layman, Oral, Relax.....yes he lied about a BJ.

No. He committed perjury, obstruction of justice, and witness tampering about a BJ.


glitterbag wrote:
Bill Clinton committed perjury, not witness tampering

Bill Clinton committed perjury AND witness tampering AND obstruction of justice.


glitterbag wrote:
are you shitting me....I was unaware that a BJ was a crime that Congress needed to investigate..

The investigation centered around perjury, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice.


glitterbag wrote:
and you want to hang your hats on criminal behaviour because of a BJ)

I am unaware of an exception that it is OK to commit felonies so long as you are only trying to conceal a BJ.

Let me guess, this exception only applies to Democrats?

Would you also be OK with Bill Clinton murdering people so long as he was only trying to conceal a BJ?


glitterbag wrote:
But please let me know if you want the "crime" of consensual sex between adult heterosexuals raised to the level of an impeachable offense 'if that sex fiend tries to keep it private'.

Post-Clinton it is rather late to complain about impeachable offenses. Go ahead and prove that a Republican president committed treason. I'll support him (or her) even more if you do.

Pre-Clinton I would have said it matters what exactly is being done to keep it private (with long strings of assorted felonies being out of bounds as an acceptable method).
glitterbag
 
  2  
Tue 16 May, 2017 11:49 pm
@layman,
You don't make any sense at all.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Tue 16 May, 2017 11:52 pm
@oralloy,
Let me guess, you think Bill murdered someone to avoid telling his wife he was unfaithful? Sure, that makes sense. Is it painful?
glitterbag
 
  5  
Wed 17 May, 2017 12:08 am
Congressman Jason Chaffetz sent a request to the FBI asking for any memoranda Comey submitted regarding conversations with the current President. It's unusual for an oversight committee to request records from a Federal Agency, but not unusual for the top management to submit memoranda of record of meetings held at the Whitehouse with the President, Vice-President or Amy other cabinet or agency heads. That's business as usual....it's government business and records are kept.

I don't know how this will fall out, but I want it to proceed honestly. The citizens of this country deserve an honest accounting from their elected officials. This ain't football folks. Let's get it on the table and set things straight. Forty-eight people who assisted Nixon in his coverup got jail sentences. Let's lance this boil before it gets deadly.

Some of you will think I want Trump to be tossed out. Yes I find him to e a disgusting man but if he hasn't committed treason or recklessly separated us from our allies....I'll be happy....surprised, but happy. This country will survive as long as everybody remembers we are a country, not just football teams at the Super Bowl.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 17 May, 2017 12:30 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
Let me guess, you think Bill murdered someone to avoid telling his wife he was unfaithful?

No. I took your position to a logical extreme in order to demonstrate how flawed and untenable it is.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_extreme


glitterbag wrote:
Sure, that makes sense.

Yes.


glitterbag wrote:
Is it painful?

I am experiencing no pain.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Wed 17 May, 2017 12:53 am
Since it's clear that none of us realy knows a damned thing about obstruction of justice, here's a WaPo overview:

Quote:
Former FBI director James B. Comey’s allegation that President Trump pressed him to shut down the bureau’s investigation into former national security adviser Michael Flynn provides the strongest support yet for a criminal obstruction-of-justice case against Trump, legal analysts say, though even more evidence would probably be required to warrant action.

Comey wrote in a memo that Trump asked him to walk away from the Flynn probe, declaring that Flynn was a good man and asserting to his FBI director, “I hope you can let this go.”
That, legal analysts say, provides a plausible case that the president obstructed justice. The FBI is investigating Flynn’s dealings, as well as possible coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin to influence the 2016 presidential election.
“There’s definitely a case to be made for obstruction,” said Barak Cohen, a former federal prosecutor who now does white-collar defense work at the Perkins Coie law firm. “But on the other hand you have to realize that — as with any other sort of criminal law — intent is key, and intent here can be difficult to prove.”
On Tuesday, all 33 Democrats on the House Judiciary and Oversight and Government Reform committees sent a letter to their Republican counterparts asking to launch an investigation into whether Trump and those in his administration were “engaged in an ongoing conspiracy to obstruct” the various probes by the Justice Department, FBI and Congress. House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) sent his own letter to the FBI’s acting director, asking him to turn over all records of communications between Comey and Trump, noting that reports about the communications “raise questions as to whether the President attempted to influence or impede the FBI’s investigation.”
The existence of the Comey memo was first reported by the New York Times. Associates of Comey later confirmed the details of it to The Washington Post. Spokesmen for the FBI and the Justice Department declined to comment on it.
The laws governing obstruction of justice require prosecutors to show a person “corruptly” tried to influence a probe — meaning investigators have to find some evidence of what a person was thinking when taking a particular action.
In this case, analysts said, that would mean analyzing the specific details of Trump and Comey’s conversation, assessing what else was happening at the time and possibly talking to Trump associates who had talked with the president about what he wanted to do.
“It depends on what he said and how he said it,” said Edward B. MacMahon Jr., another criminal defense lawyer. “I call all the time and ask prosecutors to stop investigations. It just depends on how it’s done.”
MacMahon noted there are circumstances — such as the CIA worrying about disclosure of classified information — in which one component of the executive branch discourages prosecutors from pursuing a case.
“If the reason you wanted it stopped was because it was going to lead to the prosecution of one of your friends, that would be one thing,” he said. “If you wanted it stopped because you didn’t want to disclose national security information, that’s something provided by statute.”
In a statement, the White House disputed Comey’s characterization of his conversation with Trump, saying “the president has never asked Mr. Comey or anyone else to end an investigation, including any investigation involving General Flynn. . . . This is not a truthful or accurate portrayal of the conversation between the president and Mr. Comey.’’
That is important, analysts said, because if the president were merely asserting that “he personally knows the target of the investigation and he’s just trying to provide his two cents,” that might not present him any legal problems, Cohen said.
“You have Comey’s word against Trump, right?” Cohen said. “You need somebody else that Trump may have spoken to that provides evidence of intent.”
Trump has suggested on Twitter that there might exist tapes of his conversations with Comey. If that is true, those could be critical to proving whose account of the meeting is accurate.
At worst, Cohen said, prosecutors’ theory of the case would be that Trump pressured Comey to stand down on Flynn because he feared the investigation could affect him personally. Last week, Trump removed Comey from his post as FBI director and claimed that Comey had told him three times he was not under investigation.
“While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau,” Trump wrote to Comey.
Cohen said that itself could be a piece of circumstantial evidence that Trump was trying to impede an ongoing probe. Trump also said in an NBC News interview that the Russia probe was on his mind when he fired his FBI director.
Cohen said Comey’s memo was “direct evidence” against Trump, but he noted “it only comes out after the termination.”
“The question is, if the president committed the crime or attempted to commit the crime of obstruction, and you serve the Constitution and not the president, why didn’t you say something about this before you were fired?” Cohen said.
When the FBI was investigating Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was secretary of state, President Barack Obama notably said in an interview with Fox News, “I continue to believe that she has not jeopardized America’s national security.” Obama insisted the White House was not meddling in the probe — though his comments undeniably struck at the heart of the matter.
Cohen said that while it was “highly improper” for Trump to insert himself in an investigation in any way, charging him would be difficult. With a lower-profile target, he said, “maybe prosecutors might be aggressive enough to bring a case,” but “it also arguably undermines democracy for prosecutors to go after a sitting president with only circumstantial evidence.”
Quote:

The Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel has opined in the past that the president cannot be indicted or prosecuted at all, “because it would impermissibly interfere with the President’s ability to carry out his constitutionally assigned functions and thus would be inconsistent with the constitutional structure.”
Trump could be impeached, though, for “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” In the articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon — which were never taken up by the full House of Representatives — legislators cited obstruction of justice
 

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