192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Kolyo
 
  3  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 01:39 pm
@izzythepush,
Well Erdogan got the most votes, so his opponents need to shut up and let him act like a king.

Don't you know that's how democracy works?

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 02:23 pm
@hightor,
Of course he could have and you and Trump Haters would have reviled him for doing so.

Part of the reason why the job has been tough is because he has faced a degree of animus from those who don't approve of him being president that is unlike anything we've seen in my 63 year lifetime.

And please don't try to tell me Obama went through the same thing, because he did not. The degree of obstruction by the opposition party may have been roughly the same, but how many marches and demonstrations were staged in Obama's first 100 days? And while there were plenty of Obama Haters making wild and scurrilous claims about him, he could always count on the MSM and the entertainment industry to constantly defend him and even sing his praises, while with Trump, these two sectors are often responsible for the wild and scurrilous claims.

Trump Haters like Obama Haters are irrational. They base their condemnation and warnings on what they imagine will be the result of a Trump presidency, not on what he has actually done, and if what he does is contrary to their assumptions and predictions, it make no difference, they ignore the facts or flip their concern.

From the start, Trump Haters have taken it as a matter of fact that he owes his election to the Russians and that whether it is due to this or some salacious photos of him they have hanging over his head he is their marionette and they will pull his strings. The evidence of this has yet to be produced, but that has hardly dissuaded his critics who remain certain that it exists and that only another, deeper conspiracy is keeping it from seeing the light of day. Moreover, the actions he has taken that have or might have an impact on Russia have thus far belied the notion that he is their creature: The attack on Syria, and his retreat from consideration of withdrawal from NATO. The response from Trump Haters? Somehow these actions are consistent with their theory of Trump being Putin's puppet. The difficulty of debating conspiracy theorists is that they always have a way of explaining any development, no matter how contrary to their premise, as part of the conspiracy they are dedicated to revealing. In this case Putin has agreed to, or even ordered, these events in an attempt to distract the public from the truth.

The same critics went on and on about the dangers of someone as unstable as Trump having control of the most powerful military in the world and nuclear weapons. He was sure to involve us in wars and perhaps even a truly disastrous conflagration involving Russia (despite his puppet status) or China. When the Syrian attack was launched there was talk in this forum of WWIII. Next when North Korea issued it's usual threats and continued its testing of missiles designed to carry a nuke to the West Coast of America, and the response from the Trump Administration was tough talk, again there was talk in this forum about WWIII. Once it became clear that neither of these hot spots were going to result in escalation and war, the Trump Haters turned to their usual fallback position of ridiculing Trump and making much of what the actual course of a pair of US aircraft carriers seemingly sent to NK to flex our muscles, might have been.

Trump, as promised, nominated an eminently qualified judge for the SC vacancy and because the Democrats were compelled by their base and big donors to oppose him, the Reid Option was invoked and now SC justice nominations can't be filibustered. The reaction from the Trump Haters? He and the Republicans destroyed a long standing tradition of the Senate! How dare they!

Go through the entire list of what he has accomplished in the first 100 days. What exactly constitutes a radical and atrocious change that is going to lead to the suffering of millions of Americans? The much bemoaned death of Obamacare couldn't even be pulled off by the Republicans. The Wall which was never much more than symbolic and never presented a threat to the well being of Americans is going nowhere. The travel ban discomforted about 100 travelers for a couple of days at most and, again, never presented a threat to the well being of Americans is stuck in the courts. The Keystone Pipeline is back on but this was a project that Hillary Clinton's own State Dept rules didn't pose a threat to the environment so it's hard to make the case that it's a disaster.

His critics are in the all too familiar position of contradicting themselves with their charges: His first 100 days have been an exercise in ineptitude and confusion, but in his first 100 days he has set the country on a course to ruin. It's a pretty neat trick. Just like George Bush simultaneously being an ignorant moron, and a diabolically evil villain.

He may turn out to be a terrible president, but only 100 days into his presidency, no serious person can claim this to be the proven, current case. If it is the goal of his opponents to bombard the American people with criticism of every single thing he does and create an impression that he has already proven to be a failure, they may be succeeding , but primarily with those who were inclined to consider him a failure from Day One. From what I can tell, anecdotally, his supporters have given up on the MSM. They don't trust it, they don't believe it and it's not going to change their minds about the guy. I saw a poll the other day that indicated that 98% of Trump voters still support him, and don't regret their vote. Now if he truly wants to be successful, he needs to make inroads with people who didn't vote for him, but that may be tough given the all out effort of his opponents to render his presidency a failure and short of that convey to the country and the world that it is.

I've never been a huge Trump fan. For me, a vote for Trump was a vote against Clinton, and some of the characteristics that were on display prior to his election have remained evident after it. I am counting, perhaps foolishly, on the influence and decision making of his cabinet, and in his growing into the job. In that regard, I see his admission that the job is tougher than he imagined to be a positive sign, because contrary to your assertion, which itself was a Trump dig, he could very well have said the opposite. It certainly would have been more like the Trump character we've seen, than an admission that he finds anything difficult. Obama famously asserted he was better than any of his underlings in any of their areas of specialization. Realistically this was either absurd or he was a horrible judge of talent. He couldn't make that statement but he did.

The only thing to be gained by a disastrous Trump presidency is the likelihood that the next president will be a Democrat. In the meantime, the nation and it's people will suffer. Hoping for him to fail miserably, which is exactly what Trump Haters are doing, despite what they may claim, is a pretty shitty position to take.
Sturgis
 
  6  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 02:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Part of the reason why the job has been tough is because he has faced a degree of animus from those who don't approve of him being President...


Of course the real reason is, he is politically uninformed and therefore gravely inept. This, combined with his inability to take any responsibility for his failures and missteps has made the Presidency thus far look like a poorly written movie script by wet-brained nincompoops.
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 02:45 pm
@georgeob1,
I was a bit wrong again. I wagered you'd say, "It's Edwin, not Edward. Just shows how "educated" blatham is"

But your actual response isn't any better.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 03:03 pm
@Sturgis,
Well, you have to admit that Finn has a point. Even where a President's party controls the House and Senate, there's really almost nothing he can get done in office if women and african americans are marching in protest. He won't be able to make appointments, he won't be able to get his own party members to agree on policy, etc. And then, if people in the press criticize him, it makes the situation so bad that this GOP President, with the House and Senate in his camp, will be so blockaded and stymied at ever turn that any policy he might advance will end up a negative image of GOP policy - that is, it will be Dem policy.

Never ever before in the history of the US has a competent and responsible and honest President been driven down like this, made to seem - to be - a whimpering and inconsequential failure.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 03:06 pm
Giant Crowd celebrates Trump first 100 days
https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18192645_10155606082365681_3659718196313381108_o.jpg?oh=861feb1a674a001e746500c1ca639a7b&oe=598A621E
Borowitz
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 04:05 pm
@Sturgis,
Well that sounds all well and good as far as overly broad, unsupported criticism goes, but upon exactly what do you base it? I feel certain that if I posted a equally overstated claim about what a huge success his first 100 days have been, any number of people would be asking "What do you mean? How can you say that, and what do you consider his successes to be?"

What does politically uninformed precisely mean? It sounds very grave but before I can judge it's accuracy I feel I should understand what you mean by it. That he doesn't understand how government works? That he doesn't know what the duties and powers of the presidency are? That he doesn't know the Democrats are uniformly in opposition to him? That he can't identify the different factions within his own party? And before you answer "Yes, all that and more," would you mind providing examples of how you know this to be the case, and how his ignorance led to a true failure?

Similarly, what are the failures (just a few, not all) of which he should take responsibility but hasn't, and can you explain why failure to do so has made his first 100 days so dismal? For instance, he has yet to make good on his promise to repeal and replace Obamacare. There's still plenty of time and some plan will eventually emerge but thus far the efforts have failed to produce a result of any kind. Now, I tend to blame the Republicans in congress who have had eight years to come up with an alternative to the high profile program that got many of them elected. Aside from the fact that it's their job to craft and pass legislation, not the president's, you would think that after vowing to demolish the horrid thing for so long they would have been ready on day one to do so. Clearly they weren't, but even if we assume, for the sake of argument, this failure was Trump's fault, how would his "taking responsibility" for that failure have made his first 100 days more effective? Most of us feel more favorably inclined towards someone who admits their mistakes and accepts true responsibility but a) How does that do anything but make us respect the person more and b) Who was the last president or prominent politician you witnessed doing this in a genuine fashion?

Politicians are notorious for "taking responsibility" for failures when, in fact, there is no actual accountability attached to their empty words. Hillary Clinton accepted responsibility for Benghazi but what did that actually mean? At the same time she accepted the responsibility she completely denied doing anything wrong. There certainly were no consequences attached to her holding herself responsible.

It's a given that you don't like the man. Many don't. However it doesn't follow from your personal distaste for Trump or Republicans in general that his first 100 days have been a failure.

Since you know the "real" reason why the job has been tough for him and his efforts thus far so pathetic, please share the details.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 04:11 pm
@blatham,
My how your tune has changed.

When Obama was the target of wild criticism and faced Republican obstructionism it was the primary excuse for his not being able to accomplish things. He whined about it all of the time.

Now that Trump's in the office and the attacks are coming from the MSM and entertainment industry as well as political opponents and fringe elements in the media, it's not even a valid reason for why he might find the job tougher than he imagined it would be.

blatham
 
  3  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 04:28 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Now that Trump's in the office and the attacks are coming from the MSM and entertainment industry as well as political opponents and fringe elements in the media, it's not even a valid reason for why he might find the job tougher than he imagined it would be.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. Being the scholar of American history and politics as Trump so clearly was, and also through being such a kind and ethical man as he has always been, it was simply an unusual and unique oversight on his part to presume that his arrival in the WH would be met with bipartisan joyousness. Thus his surprise now. That makes sense.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 04:33 pm
Gosh. Nobody saw this coming.
Quote:
EPA website removes climate science site from public view after two decades
WP
Who would have imagined that the petroleum, energy and extraction interests would have such influence in any GOP administration? Who would have imagined the GOP would be complicit in hiding scientific data from citizens if that data might work damage on their clients' interests?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 04:41 pm
Quote:
“I truly believe that the first 100 days of my Administration has been just about the most successful in our country’s history,” Trump said. “In just fourteen weeks, my administration has brought profound change to Washington.”

“The greatest change of all is the renewal of the American spirit,” he said. “As long as we have faith in each other, and trust in God, then the sun will always shine on our very Glorious Republic.”
TPM
"Also, herds of unicorns around the world are today pooping rainbow ice cream in acknowledgement of my fantastic accomplishments as President"
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 04:51 pm
It looks like DeMint (who's been making over a million a year) is getting booted from Heritage. It looks like Heritage finds DeMint an extremist.
Quote:
The Heritage Foundation was founded in 1973 by Paul Weyrich, Edwin Feulner, and Joseph Coors.[4] Growing out of the new business activist movement inspired by the Powell Memorandum,[5][6] discontent with Richard Nixon's embrace of the "liberal consensus" and the nonpolemical, cautious nature of existing think tanks,[7] Weyrich and Feulner sought to create an organization that would supply policymakers with concise, timely position papers. With $200,000 from Coors, the Analysis and Research Association was created in 1970. New supporters and board members joined, including petroleum executive Edward Noble and Richard Mellon Scaife. Eventually, the organization split into a public interest law center and a separate public policy foundation, the latter of which was incorporated as The Heritage Foundation on February 16, 1973. Weyrich was its first president. Later, under president Frank J. Walton, the Heritage Foundation began using direct mail fundraising and Heritage's annual income grew to $1 million per year in 1976.[8] Heritage's stated mission is to "formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense".[9]
wikipedia

Now, if these guys find you to be an extremist, that puts you somewhere between Genghis Khan and Savonarola.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  6  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 05:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Oh, groan...

He couldn't make the statement because it would have been an obvious lie. For christ's sake man, are you so defensive that you have to read "trump-hater" into every statement which isn't a ringing endorsement his presidency? I gave him credit for telling the truth. This time.

Anyway, you make some good points, some not so good, and some just plain off-the-wall.

First thing, he brought on the considerable degree of animus long before he ran for president. He's been a polarizing figure since the '80s. He could only have been elected in the political climate that's grown up over the last few election cycles where no one can compromise and neither side talks to the other — and the opposition party fields a sub-optimal candidate. He's a reflection of our political reality and represents, to me at least, many of the worst characteristics of contemporary U.S. culture.
Quote:
The degree of obstruction by the opposition party may have been roughly the same, but how many marches and demonstrations were staged in Obama's first 100 days?

Obama, as a relative unknown, didn't arrive with the baggage that the reality TV star did and it took longer than a hundred days for his opposition to really coalesce but I remember plenty of Tea Party rallies with signs portraying him as an evil-looking Joker, signs calling for the lynching of Holder, and signs accusing Obama of being a "nazi communist", whatever that means. The thing is, what difference does it make? Do you believe in "people power" or something? How do protest marches prevent the president from doing his job when his party controls all three branches of government?
Quote:
he could always count on the MSM and the entertainment industry to constantly defend him and even sing his praises, while with Trump, these two sectors are often responsible for the wild and scurrilous claims.

And Trump can always count on talk radio, the alt-right, and the conservative blogosphere. They've never been know for making wild and scurrilous claims.
Quote:
They base their condemnation and warnings on what they imagine will be the result of a Trump presidency, not on what he has actually done...

Hey look — the guy gutted the EPA, okay? That happens to mean something to me. I have some faint hope that he won't withdraw from the Paris Treaty but if he does, guess what? I'll condemn him for that. The anti-immigration policy has caused real problems in many industries who rely on seasonal labor. The tariff on Canadian lumber will hurt builders where I live. I give him credit for dialing down his anti-China rhetoric, and several other signs that he listens to his more experienced advisors.
Quote:
From the start, Trump Haters have taken it as a matter of fact that he owes his election to the Russians...

I don't take that as a "matter of fact". The Russian meddling in the election raises justified concern even if it didn't provide him with victory. Your side repeats this canard so often — that the only reason for the Russia hearings is to embarrass Trump — that it makes me wonder if you even care about foreign adversaries trying to disrupt the workings of our political system. Maybe you don't, as long as your guy gets elected?
Quote:
The same critics went on and on about the dangers of someone as unstable as Trump having control of the most powerful military in the world and nuclear weapons.

When someone talks as cavalierly about "nuking" ISIS as Trump did in the campaign, guess what? It worries some people. Since he never had a great grasp of foreign policy it's difficult to know exactly how he approaches crises. As I said before, I'm relieved that some of the more level-headed advisors appear to be influential. And I'm glad that Flynn got exposed and fired. But I guess you'd rather the press had just ignored his Russian connections and we still had that liar as national security advisor. Damn liberal press.
Quote:
He and the Republicans destroyed a long standing tradition of the Senate!

Bullshit. McConnell gets the credit for that.
Quote:
His critics are in the all too familiar position of contradicting themselves with their charges: His first 100 days have been an exercise in ineptitude and confusion, but in his first 100 days he has set the country on a course to ruin.

Well you know it takes a while for the effects to be felt. There's no contradiction there. It's only been a hundred days. Sometimes not doing something can be as destructive in the long term as taking action. Be patient.
Quote:
If it is the goal of his opponents to bombard the American people with criticism of every single thing he does and create an impression that he has already proven to be a failure, they may be succeeding...

No, it was his goal to prove every critic wrong — he set the bar ridiculously high for himself. Any sense of failure is due to the expectations he set and Americans bought.
Quote:
Now if he truly wants to be successful, he needs to make inroads with people who didn't vote for him...

A show of humility might help.
Quote:
but that may be tough given the all out effort of his opponents to render his presidency a failure and short of that convey to the country and the world that it is.

It may be tough because he's consistently questioned the motives and insulted the character of his opponents. He's never offered to go half way or admitted that the concerns of his critics might have some basis in reality.
Quote:
In the meantime, the nation and it's people will suffer.

What d'ya mean? I'm already spending the money I'll be saving because of the tax cuts.
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 05:36 pm
Large marches all over the place today. Of course, as a direct consequence of these marches:

1) Trump will not be able to get ACA repealed on Day One
2) Trump will be forced to delay building the wall
3) Trump will be frustrated in getting GOP politicos to do as he wishes
4) Trump will be emotionally drained and need to go golfing
5) Trump will have to change his mind on NATO, China's manipulation of currencies, whether to stay in NAFTA and many other issues.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 06:26 pm
The personalities and dynamics behind DeMint's removal from Heritage are not clear to me. If anyone reads something good on this, please let me know. Some analysis will likely place the decision with the "establishment GOP" but such a term is now pretty much meaningless.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 06:45 pm
This is special
Quote:
President Donald Trump on Friday proclaimed May 1 as 'Loyalty Day' as a way to "recognize and reaffirm our allegiance to the principles" upon which America was built and express pride in those ideals, according to a release of the proclamation from the White House.
Fox News

I gather that Honesty is not one of those principles or ideals.
blatham
 
  5  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 06:58 pm
Super genius political philosopher and American historian of excellence, Donald Trump...

Quote:
Fox News‏Verified account
@FoxNews
.@POTUS on getting things done in government: "It's a very rough system. It's an archaic system...It's really a bad thing for the country."

America would be great again...if only he could act decisively, like Tayyip Erdogan.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  4  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 07:14 pm
@blatham,
I hate any government douche bag that wants MAY DAY as some kind of day of loyalty. Too many Bolsheviks still alive
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 07:55 pm
@farmerman,
Yes. Pretty ugly stuff there.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 29 Apr, 2017 08:10 pm
From Larry David, quoted by the New Yorker
Quote:
I don't think I ever heard of [Steve Bannon] until he surfaced with the Trump campaign and I had no idea that he was profiting from the work of industrious Jews!
0 Replies
 
 

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